Hanover County Shooting [Ashland, Virginia- North of Richmond]

[William McKinley]

Just reported. Took place outside of a Ponderosa Steakhouse. Not sure if it is related or not at this time. Police have shut down parts of I-95.

[tpaine]

"You're hopeless. Whether Paine was a deist or danced naked in the moonlight while howing at the stars, it doesn't matter, he understood that rights were granted by a higher authority than men. You don't have a clue."
2831

One can reasonably believe in a higher power than men, - but you cannot claim that this makes it 'understood' that our rights were so granted by some such being.
-- Thus, Thomas Paine could not in fact proclaim rights came from a higher authority, -- as he had rationality & common sense, above all.


Obviously, individual rights to life, liberty, & property come from the observational powers & reasoning abilities of men.

Why does this self evident truth incite so much fear among militant theists?

[SwordofTruth]

In other words, from that moment that document was signed onwards, British were a foreign presence in America. The Revolutionary War had yet to be won, true, but a new country certainly was born on July 4, 1776. Technically speaking, the correct term for the Revolutionary War is the "War of Independence" by the way. Only if the United States lost that war could the moniker "Revolutionary War" be applied to it.

Independence day was July 4 1774, anyone who thinks otherwise shouldn't be teaching history. The British were foreigners in our great land from that moment on. ExSoldier should be an ExHistory teacher if he can't acknowledge this simple fact.

[SwordofTruth]

I mean July 4 1776 Yikes!

[jwalsh07]

"The illuminating and divine principle of the equal rights of man (for it has its origin from the Maker of Man), relates not only to the living individuals, but to generations of men succeeding each other. Every generation is equal in rights to the generations which preceded it, by the same rule that every individual is born equal in rights with his contemporary."

Sound familiar?

[tpaine]

Everybody has 'off' days. - I think he was 'waxing poetic' when he had that one.
Just goes to show ya that Paine was not a 'dirty little atheist' though, right?

[jwalsh07]

Just goes to show ya that Paine was not a 'dirty little atheist' though, right?

"Dirty little atheist"? If you're implying that I said that to anybody, you're full of crap.

And he didn't have an off day, he reasoned that natural rights are born of the "Maker" and unalienable and from those natural rights flow civil rights.

Your antipathy toward religion is showing like the back of a thong. Thomas Paine understood the difference between religion and a Creator, you apparently don't.

Perhaps a new pseudonym is in order?

[tpaine]

Lighten up, and get a grip on your zealotry.


One can reasonably believe in a higher power than men, - but you cannot claim that this makes it 'understood' that our rights were so granted by some such being.
-- Thus, Thomas Paine could not in fact proclaim rights came from a higher authority, -- as he had rationality & common sense, above all.


Obviously, individual rights to life, liberty, & property come from the observational powers & reasoning abilities of men.

Why does this self evident truth incite so much fear among militant theists?

[FootBall]

"Bonanza..(Ponderosa Ranch) is on TV 2 Times a day in Ashland, Virginia....2pm and 5pm on PAXTV Channel 55 Monday through Friday"

Can you imagine a Terrorist or Wacko in a motel being influenced by watching Bonanza 2x a day for a week?

How many places in this Country still shows Bonanza 2x A day Mon through Friday?

TV GUIDE link for ashland

[GummyIII]

Thanks for the link!

[ExSoldier]

Independence day was July 4 1774,"

Anybody who can't get the most important date in American history correct should just shut up! Duh. This great country didn't exist in any official capacity until the Constitution was ratified by the colonies. And I would also argue that instead of July 4th 1776 (notice the "six" sword?), this country was born on April 19th 1775.

You two bright bulbs know what happened on that date? Do you know what two other events have forever erased this great date from the memories of patriotic Americans? Think the timing of those two subsequent events was a coincidence?

BTW I invite you to step into my inner city high school classroom with the three guys on probation for armed robbery and all their white authority hating bigoted buddies for a week or so. THEY'D EAT YOU ALIVE or you'd go to jail. I've been doing this for 14 years and was a teacher of the year a few years back. I fight against liberalism and revisionism every day of my life and I don't need two jackasses from my own side giving me pedagological grief!

Now, you two run along and play. I have papers to grade.

[Z-28]

is this really 2,851???

[drjoe]

In '76 the sky was red.
Thunder rumbling overhead,
And Old King George was asleep in his bed,
And on that Sunday morn,

Old Uncle Sam was born.

Some Birthday!!!

-Balled for Americans-

[floriduh voter]

The poor 37 year old guy has lost quite a few vital organs. It's likely it was the same kind of bullet that ricochets once it goes into the victim. I know this morning the guy was critical and unstable. That's a new one on me. Then he was critical and guarded. Any idea how he's doing tonight? I know he was going back into surgery. He may have suffered enough trauma that I don't see how the 2nd surgery was going to help him at this time.

If he lives, his whole life will be changed. He will have to rely on other people and will be angry and will have to get used to himself and spending many hours at doctor's appointments. And for what? Someone evil that they are having trouble catching. It's sad and I hope this is over soon. If it's terrorism, I hate to say, this is only the beginning. They need to pass a Homeland Security Bill so that Ridge can do something. He has no authority unless they give it to him. Don't blame Ridge I say, blame Tom Daschle's democrats.

[FreeReign]

To simplify, there are no Constitutional rights. There are only Constitutional protected rights. The Constitution is drafted to protect preexisting rights. The reason this is important is that following the logic that some rights are created by the Constitution allows tyrants the power to restrict or remove those rights. I.e. by your argument, the representatives are placed in a power position superior to the Constitution and can thus alter individual rights. All sections you have quoted as a source of individual rights are only restrictions on goverment's interference with individual rights and/or policies for setting up the goverment - not the source of indiduial rights for the average citizen. Again, semantics aside, show me the section(s) and paragraph(s) whereby the U.S. Constitution creates individual rights for citizens of this country.

Article [I.]
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Article [II.]
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

In order for the Constitution to protect unalieanable -- "preexisating" -- rights, the Constitution must define correctly what are the unalienable -- "preexisting" rights to protect. By specifying, freedom of speech, religion, press, assembly, government petition, the bearing of arms, etc..., the Constitution, it's framers and the potential politicos who could ammend the Constitution, create and maintain Constitutional rights. If they do it correctly, then these Constitutional rights match the unalienable "preexisting rights" but Constitutional rights don't necessacerily match preexisting rights.

[Morrigan]

Nogbad, I mean all Muslims, legal or not.....I say, deport 'em all, and let Allah sort 'em out!

[aristeides]

Just heard on WMAL: victim of Ashland shooting just released from hospital. Turns out he's a man from FL. Name still not given.

[Fred Mertz]

Thanks for the news update.

[Dog]

Thanks for the update......good news.

[iceskater]

His family was pretty adamant about not releasing his name. His wife was interviewed by the Times Dispatch awhile ago and she was overwhelmed by the outpouring of good wishes, etc. from the Richmond area. He is very lucky to be alive. The extent of his injuries was massive.