Catholic Caucus: YOPIOS = Your Own Personal Interpretation Of Scripture

[Polycarp]

YOPIOS = Your Own Personal Interpretation Of Scripture.

This is my new handy nmemonic for the error of sola scriptura as it applies to you folks today. I encourage my fellow Catholics to adopt this handy abbreviation, it makes typing these posts much easier

[RnMomof7]

The point is that Esau was given a birthright that he lost of his own free will. God obviously knew Esau was not truly repentant.

You may want to read it again..God predestined the circumstances..Jacob was always the elect of God..

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Well, whether RnMomof7 really apologized is an open question. If that is the best she can do, then it speaks volumes about her character. How very sad.

But you've taken the opportunity of her inability to give an unadorned, unqualified apology to prove yourself as graceless and classless as she.

Try to edit your responses of unnecessary material before attempting to impress us with your insight. The evidence that you are wrong will still be available to readers, but they will be able to access it more rapidly.

And what meaning do you expect your delusionally self-important statements of unknowing, inexperienced opinion to have with us?

In the considered opinion of the FreeRepublic flaming committee, we recommend that you immediately garrote yourself with your keyboard wire and spare us the ignominy of posting articles in the same forum as your garrulous, petulant tripe.

sitetest butts into hot disputes, presuming that the combatants will welcome and appreciate his even-handed and eminently reasonable mediation. Frankly, he gets what he deserves..

BigMack

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Talk about Prod delusions of grandeur! After all, what are you protesting against other than Jesus Christ and the Church He established upon Peter? It is no coincidence that Luther posted his rebellious theses on a witch's sabbath of October 31. God loves you in any event.

"I categorically deny that I never did nothing to nobody, and I never told no one to not do what he did."

BigMack

[RnMomof7]

Mack I never want to intentionally hurt anyone..but I can not and will not apoligize for the word of God doing what it is supposed to do..convict people of their sin and Gods grace..

I TRY not to call names or be sharp..but I often fail..and as you know when I do I apologize ...My retort to CG was tough..and on the edge and for that I am sorry....but I am sorry for the tone not the foundational thought...

CG sorry for the tone of my words..if it was hurful I am sorry

[american colleen]

So now you are saying heaven is a reward, and not a free gift. There is a big difference AC. Think about it.

You are right, eternal life is a free gift from Him - I rushed and used a poor choice of words. I will say that we can certainly lose that free gift! Heaven is the reward for obeying him.

"I tell you, on the day of judgment men will render account for every careless word they utter; for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." --- forget the chapter and verse.

Read the judgement scene of Matt. 25:31-46. We must all give an account to Christ what we do in relation not for rewards but for salvation. The bible says to us that works will be judged by God and will be determine your final destiny. Anything not done in faith is a sin.

If we deliberately sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgement." --- the "we" in this verse also included St. Paul --- Hebrews 10:?

There are several places in the bible where crowns are mentioned in terms of being a reward.

The first thing I thought of when you mentioned crowns as rewards is the parable of the vineyard workers...

"When those hired about the eleventh hour came, each one received a denarius.
10 "When those hired first came, they thought that they would receive more; but each of them also received a denarius.
11 "When they received it, they grumbled at the landowner,
12 saying, 'These last men have worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden and the scorching heat of the day.'
13 "But he answered and said to one of them, 'Friend, I am doing you no wrong; did you not agree with me for a denarius?
14 'Take what is yours and go, but I wish to give to this last man the same as to you.
15 'Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with what is my own? Or is your eye envious because I am generous?'

The second thing I thought of was James 1:12
Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

We have to persevere in order to receive salvation. The judgement for rewards doesn't make sense to me at all because you believe if one has faith only, one is saved. Any "good works" are rewarded with crowns (but I thought works didn't matter?). Any "bad works" (sin) are forgiven by His death on the cross. That would mean that satan, who has faith, who knows Jesus is the Lord, is saved. I am guessing he wouldn't receive crowns and his "bad works" will be forgiven? Do you see the dilemma I am in? It doesn't make sense to me.

Just a few quick thoughts.

[american colleen]

Is it a sin for a Catholic not to partake of communion and confession at least once a year?

Yes! The reason is He said, "Do this in memory of Me" --- and also because Mass has always been the foundation of Christian life.

[american colleen]

Do you have a scripture on that ..Did He say "It is "ALMOST finished" as soon as men complete it?

It is finished..an act of Gods mercy and grace ..not our works

No ma'am, you are wrong. "It is finished" did not mean what you say it means. "...if Christ has not been raised, your faith is in vain; you are still in your sins" - 1 Cor. 15: 17 --- when He said "It is finished" he still hadn't been resurrected, so I'm not sure what your point is?

I find it odd you don't mention "For if WE (we includes St. Paul) deliberately sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgement. [Hebrews 10:26-27; RSV]...

What about the sheep and goat JUDGEMENT scene in Matthew? They were JUDGED according to their works - not for their faith and not for rewards.

ColleenGod does not even SEE the sins that are coverd by the blood of Jesus

Oh! Would that be like a person who hasn't bathed in years putting on brand new clothes? Or maybe like the washing of the outside of the cup when the inside is filthy? I thought nothing unclean could get into heaven?

[AlguyA]

"You may want to read it again..God predestined the circumstances.."

Reminds me of a joke I came up with a couple of years ago while in discussion with the Calvinists.

It's the Day of Judgement and we're all there awaiting final sentencing Catholics on one side, Free Will Protestants on the other, and the Calvinists right in the middle.

Our Lord descends from his throne, steps to the podium, and, adressing the Calvinists says:

"Well, folks, I've got some good news and I've got some bad news. First the good news, that whole predistination thing you were arguing? You we're right."

The Calvinists begin to cheer. Our Lord clears his throat to get everyone's attention and then says:

"Now the bad news. The predestined? It's the Catholics."

[RnMomof7]

He meant the atonement ,the slaughter of the Lamb for the forgivness of sin was finished.Colleen "without the shedding of blood there is NO forgivness for sin" . The elect of God..those chosen from the foundation of the world were washed in that blood..Clean..

The resurrection was the victory and our personal Hope of resurrection..

I find it odd you don't mention "For if WE (we includes St. Paul) deliberately sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgement. [Hebrews 10:26-27; RSV]...

I do not find it "odd " at all The author of Hebrews is saying exactly what I am saying..if you refuse the sacrifice of Christ there is nothing more YOU can do..you are lost. He was the Perfect and complete sacrifice planned from the foundation of the world..God has no PLAN B for you Colleen

The Sheep and the goats is not "story" ..it is the elect and the non elect..it is the saved and the non saved...The sheep were not goats that changed into sheep with good works. Notice that God says we inherited it..we do nothing to 'earn ' an inheritance, it is freely given in love we are His children, then heirs. The sheep are rewarded for the times they ministered to others in His name...the goats may well have done the same good works..but done for other reasons (like self).God would not see or count those..If it is not of faith it is sin....

Oh! Would that be like a person who hasn't bathed in years putting on brand new clothes? Or maybe like the washing of the outside of the cup when the inside is filthy? I thought nothing unclean could get into heaven?

On the day I was saved I put on Christ..I wear Christ..When the Father looks down on me He sees Christ ..I am righteous in Christ..I am clean Colleen I have been cleaned continually by the blood of Christ..I have a High priest that offered a sacrifice once for me and then sat down...You are very proud if you think you are some how more able than Jesus Christ to satisfy for the sin you commit..you make God your debtor..He owes it to ya cause ya tried so hard and did so good all on your own ..and what you missed you burned off your self..why you did not even need a savior..you saved yourself..congradulations. Now me ..I am a worthless piece of filth ..I can never be worth to stand in the presence of a Holy God..But I will because I have one that makes me Holy as He is Holy..I am covered in Christ..

[RnMomof7]

You Hope..I know:>)

[Catholicguy]

<> Thank you<>

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Heaven is the reward for obeying him.

So then in your opinion, you receive salvation because of what you do, obey, rather then trusting in the sacrafice Christ made on the cross?

The judgement for rewards doesn't make sense to me

Then explain 1 Cor. 3:11-15

at all because you believe if one has faith only, one is saved. Any "good works" are rewarded with crowns (but I thought works didn't matter?).

I never said works do not matter. Read my post again. Works are very important to a Christian, We are rewarded for our works. We should want rewards so we will have something to give to Jesus when we are judged. BUT THE WORKS ARE EVIDIENCE OF SALVATION NOT WORKS TO GAIN SALVATION.

That would mean that satan, who has faith, who knows Jesus is the Lord, is saved.

No that means no such thing. Having a head knowledge of Jesus is not the same as having a heart knowledge. Heart knowledge (love, gratitude, fear of displeasing) will cause you to want to obey God, because of what he has done for you. Do you think Satan loves God? Surly not! I don't believe Satan has FAITH in God. He just knows there is a God, that is what the bible says.

James 2:10 You say you believe in God, that is good, the devils believe also and tremble.

Do you see the difference in just believeing and having FAITH?

Do you see the dilemma I am in? It doesn't make sense to me.

Boy do I. I struggled with it for many years. Two things that helped me. When you study, keep in mind that salvation is a one time done deal, if recieved with all sincerety. Sanctification, is an on going thing. Living the christian life is done because you are saved, not to get saved or stay saved. Study with these thoughts in mind, and you will start seeing those things reaveled clearly.

Becky

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

I will address the passage from Matt. later.

Becky

[Gotterdammerung]

It is because of Jesus' Sacrifice that I am able to be baptized and do penance for sin and expect to be Saved. We must do something to be saved, but many think all they need is faith alone; that is heresy.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

It is because of Jesus' Sacrifice that I am able to be baptized and do penance for sin and expect to be Saved.

Do you believe it is possible for a catholic to be baptized, do penance, and still not be saved?

Becky

[RnMomof7]

It is because of Jesus' Sacrifice that I am able to be baptized and do penance for sin and expect to be Saved. We must do something to be saved, but many think all they need is faith alone; that is heresy.

That is not what the Bible says.

Rom 3:21   But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

     Rom 3:22   Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
     Rom 3:23   For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
     Rom 3:24   Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

  1Pe 1:18   Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, [as] silver and gold, from your vain conversation [received] by tradition from your fathers;

Rom 4:16   Therefore [it is] of faith, that [it might be] by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Tts 3:5   Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

The Bible clearly tells us that there is NOTHING we can do to be righteous to a holy God........My righteousness is IN Christ not in myself

Justification - we have been saved from the penalty of sin [Past Tense]

Sanctification - we are being saved from the power of sin [Present Tense]

Glorification - we shall be saved from the presence of sin [Future Tense]

[Gotterdammerung]

"Do you believe it is possible for a catholic to be baptized, do penance, and still not be saved?"

Do you believe it is possible for a Baptist to go forward at an invitation, shake the pastor's hand, get baptized and not be saved?

Of Course.

Don

[St.Chuck]

Different actions same Holy Spirit. Now at His conversion Peter had not yet been empowered by the Holy Ghost ....whereas Paul got it all at once .

Both men had their lives changed forever..if Shakespeare changed you forever..if it made you fall on your knees in submission to God then maybe you need to start the first church of Shakespeare..

Something might change you forever, but it doesn't necessarily follow that it is the Holy Spirit that is causing the change. That is my point. As you well know. The Yopios crowd would like to believe that the Holy Spirit is guiding their intellectual (or is it emotional?) understanding of scripture. I am merely suggesting that perhaps, like Peter, they should excercise some prudence and even hesitation before pronouncing their understanding as Absolute Truth guided by the Holy Spirit! Especially, when their understanding motivates them to condemn the faith and understanding of their fellow Christians, known as Catholics.

I have no need to start a church of Shakespeare. That is what others have done when they were intoxicated by the words of Luther, Calvin, Wycliffe, Knox, et.al.

[St.Chuck]

I have no need to start a church of Shakespeare. That is what others have done when they were intoxicated by the words of Luther, Calvin, Wycliffe, Knox, et.al.

Wait...I'm feeling magnanimous this morning...I'd like to add Lefebvre to my list of playwrites.

[RnMomof7]

Something might change you forever, but it doesn't necessarily follow that it is the Holy Spirit that is causing the change. That is my point. As you well know. The Yopios crowd would like to believe that the Holy Spirit is guiding their intellectual (or is it emotional?) understanding of scripture. I am merely suggesting that perhaps, like Peter, they should excercise some prudence and even hesitation before pronouncing their understanding as Absolute Truth guided by the Holy Spirit

There is indeed false teaching and interpretations and I would be bold enough to suggest some of those false teaching are taught by the RC Church..beginning with infused righteouness and salvation by works.

How do we know what is true? Jesus told us by its fruit. On those "non fatal" differences of doctrine most evangelical /born again protestants agree .Look to the lives and fruit of the children of the reformation..

By faith are ye saved not by works Chuck..the attempt to earn Gods favor and then have him repay you with salvation is having faith in yourself..not in the grace and mercy of God ...that my friend I fear is a fatal error