Nation's last major shirt plant closes, production moves overseas

AP via Boston.com ^ | 10/18/2002 15:49 | David Sharp

[Black Agnes]

Um...as for the pharma and chemical industries, they're full of foreigners educated here. I can tell you that Americans (of any color) are a diminishing species in pharma research. Most of them are Chinese (especially the chemists). Now, what do you think will happen to our pharma/chemical industry if/when China decides to be nasty? (only a matter of time)

These people will either be a hugh fifth column in country, or go home, taking all our training and expertise with them. You can argue 'American kids are too lazy' all you want...fact of the matter is...YOU will be in danger then. Simple. (BTW, all the chi-coms I work with sided with China during the surveillance plane episode...) The least scary alternative is that China will develop an environment that isn't hostile to pharma companies (Like government drug pricing mandates) and the pharma companies we have now will move to China, taking all the US-educated chi-coms with them. (Which, btw, is why there aren't any major pharma companies doing research in Europe anymore, they're mostly in Northern NJ now. Europe 'socialized' them out of profitability and they simply picked up and moved...prescription drug coverage here will do the same, eventually) They can then sell us drugs at whatever they want to Americans or, if we don't side with them on Taiwan (or wherever) just decide not to sell them to us at all. Joy.

The point here is...there isn't *anything* that can't be globalized (and most of the ones you listed are in the process of being globalized)...to the detriment of our pocketbooks, and national security. Some of us would argue that our pocketbooks ARE national security. (lower tax base means less money for defense...fewer defense related industries (and all the support industries they depend on) means more will have to be imported. I don't feel too safe with some of our defense related industries (Think titanium, chromium, molybdenum and more) having to depend on countries that have nukes aimed at us for supplies. YMMV.)

[Axenolith]

we have the most productive labor

Not in textiles. Productivity without profit is useless.

My point is that companies are moving out for areas with less onerous regulations and taxes. You could afford to keep those plants there if the owners were not forced to comply with a host of regulatory BS and taxes acting as a leech upon the productive sector of society.

On another note, I'm actually hoping that Oregon passes that free medical care ballot initiative this November so the rest of the country can watch as a state implodes from fleeing business. Better one should eat it and demonstrate the folly up front to the rest than all of us continue to suffer the "death of a thousand cuts" that the current creeping socialist incrementalism is inflicting on us...

[ArneFufkin]

China cannot be a trading partner. They do not acknowledge or respect patents, copyrights and intellectual property. They're thiefs. You can't trade or enter contracts with them. They steal BILLIONS from our software: computer, music and film. They buy one and knock it off for sale to South Asia. Massive theft.

Regarding the research lab ... I'm not convulsing over brilliant scientists and biologists who happen to be Chinese. Are they Chinese nationals? That's ChiComm, and .... haven't we adequately articulated the peril of ChiComm visitors in our most sensitive weapon labs?

Let's set up a cube, workstation and password entry to full access, post a helpful "Vital Secrets and Nuclear Codes" icon for President Zemin if he's ever in the neighborhood.

"Good night Chen! Have a great weekend ... don't drop that notebook computer, the boss thinks it's locked away! Ha ha ha! Goold old Chen ... Chen ... he works here right? We'll solve that puzzle Monday." Aye yi yi.

[ArneFufkin]

The government keeps getting bigger and demanding more money to operate and the better paying jobs of the working class that supplies the tax base keeps getting smaller.

I appreciate and respect your words. You describe a reality truthfully. But ... it's the truth.

I just cannot ignore the "working class" label you employed. We do not have a caste economic system here. I work. Barry Bonds works. Huey Lewis is Workin for a Livin. There's no "working class" economic strata. This is America. We strive to be "first class".

[Black Agnes]

Yes, Chicomms, all chicomms. Out of 11 of my (soon to be ex) cow-orkers, 7 are Chi-comms. This is not uncommon in research science these days. If I have to listen, one more time, to how they are genetically and intellectually superior due to 5000 years of racial purity I'll puke and call HR. (who, since the offenders aren't white, will either ignore me, or investigate me) I will tell you this. The FIRST thing they do on reaching the US is send for their girlfriends/wives and commence making anchor babies. They even CALL their firstborn 'my anchor baby'.

On the afternoon of Sep 11, 2001, two of them walked by my cube and told me 'You know, you arrogant Americans were asking for this. You support Israel, what did you expect them to do?'. The rubble hadn't even completely settled yet and they blamed US. Ask yourself why our INSANE immigration and education laws LET these America HATING people in this country, educate them, and then allow them to work in a sensitive industry????? Hint, the politicians and corporatists don't CARE about the peons...We're not just talking about cheap chicken plant labor issues here.

(I won't EVEN discuss all the Pakistanis in our research labs and graduate schools in SCARY things like microbiology (germ warfare anyone?), chemistry (chemical warfare anyone?) and on and on and on. WE managed to crawl from being a third world back country pest hole that was boycotted by the then largest economy on earth (Brits boycotted us for a good long time after Cornwallis surrendered, that's why one of our early trading partners was China and the far east) and managed to boot strap ourselves into the most productive economy on earth, Ever, without any foreign handouts or investments. WHY do people thing that by educating those who will be our enemies one day, and those who are our enemies today, we will be better off, or they will be better off?)

[mississippi red-neck]

Thank you. I'm certainly not against free enterprise or a company making a profit. anyone knows that the company has to make a decent protfit to survive and that it's certainly in the interest of the employees that it do so. But just to open our country up to Red China and ask our workers and our companies to compete against slave labor and the red army workers is not in the best interest of our country.

The company it's self went out of business and the company that bought it out sold off the lands and assets and shut about a dozen plants in the U. S. at the cost of about 17,000 jobs. They said they where going to invest overseas.

We met with the company before it sold to see if we could give up some pay and benefits in order to help keep the plants open. The board of directors said we couldn't compete even if we hourly and management worked for free. The chinese where using slave labor and red army workers to do the work of our equipment and that their raw material (forests) they didn't have to pay for. So thanks to Bill and friends who just sign agreements to open our markets without thinking or caring about the long term effect on our country another, wave of good paying jobs disappear almost overnight.

Their's just too many American dollars going overseas to build plants and create jobs to make products to sell over here, that sends more American dollars over there. We used to be a supply nation now we are becoming a dependent one.

Maybe my thinking is old and out of date. I don't have the answer. I'm not an economic expert. All I know if you keep taking money out of the cookie jar without putting any back in one day you reach and come up empty. Thanks for your patience and for listening to my ranting.

[mississippi red-neck]

I just cannot ignore the "working class" label you employed.

You are correct that was a bad choice. I never intended to imply that anyone that earned income in any honest endevor wheither mental or physical or both was not working or a hardworker.

When I first started working at fifteen, one of the first things learned was you couldn't look at a person and tell how hard his or her job was.

[LowOiL]

How about "athletic sock shop". Not sweat shop, sweat sock shop.

You have no idea what you are talking about do you! This town produces every type of sock known, from designed Nike's to dress socks to strange 3-D style socks. (http://www.busigiovanni.com/images/c3di.jpg)

You have no bitch, you have no excuse, you have noone to blame but yourself if you miss the boat. This irks me mightily, you make socks and you feel a seige from abroad. Knocking tube socks off the line isn't an American journey.

First off, your reading comprehension is off, again I repeat, I don't work in the sock business, but I do follow it closely and have several friends that do work in this field. Please do try to keep up so I don't have to keep saying the same thing over and over. What the heck is knocking tube sock off the line? You have no idea how the process of sock production is today, there is no manual labor involved in removing sock, they are automatically vacuumed via clear tubes into holding boxes once the socks are discarded from the machine that forms them. Again I don't see that what the people that do this in this town is UNAMERICAN? All I see is a bigoted blowhard downing a way of life for alot of people including some of my friends. Resigning their way of life as outdated without even a fight. A very American spirit to say the least, give up and die and except defeat. (/sarcasm last sentence)

You're severely underachieving pal. Nobody who has the awareness and interest to patronize this forum should be anything but motivated, professional and thankful. Smart and systematic too.

Again I see a bigoted blow hard tooting a horn of stupidity on a national forum. I see motivated, professional and thankful sock mill employees and owners daily. To raise a family honestly with a good days work is not underachieving in my opinion. We must have different values of what is a success. They had to be smart and systematic to survive an environment where their own government could care less about them. You would sell your soul and your country down the tubes for a nickel. I can readily see that.

It's Saturday before noon, there's a library near your house, head over there, sit on one of those really hard chairs and ponder your future. Have you talked to your boss about your future there? Believe it or not, he/she does care about that.

I ponder my future often and in depth but it is usually along the lines of how Godless people often are and how clueless they behave. But I don't see selling my country and it's people down the pipe as part of that future. Again, if you had read my previous message you would know I don't work in the sock business, I am a self employed electrician. I have worked in some of the mills wiring in new machines, mains , but hold no job duty to it per se. I go where the work is whether it be residential or industrial or governmental. That is all I will tell you about myself, no need for more. Don't ask.
You are right in one small aspect, there is alot of concerned/caring bosses. They have downsized alot of departments due to labor saving advances and have had to let go of some of the more unskilled laborers. As far as I can tell most of them are decent people that did care for their employees. This is a tight knit community, a good community with alot of good people.

I'm no Market Research guru, but my take on future of the sweat sock industry is very, very bearish. Your town better open a casino or brothel quick like.

I can tell you are no "guru" in anything but running your tongue in matters you have no insight in whatsoever. As far as your suggestion of turning the town into a sin city, no thanks, we try our best to keep those types out. We have held our own so far without your help and are the last major stronghold of the textile industry in the United States and we have done it without selling our souls to your unmoralist views. Perhaps that is why this town produces over 25% of the socks worn in the US and ships to over 15 countries. (source: http://fortpayne.com/html/sockcap.html ) . By the way, for those lurkers, read the link and see what kind of "sweat shop" this town runs like FunkyArne suggests. Again proof that someone has no idea what side of their face they talk out of, just so they hear themselves bleat.

Low OiL

[ArneFufkin]

There is no rational excuse for ANY Chinese national employed by anybody, anywhere in our land. The Chinese plan to steal every technology, medical innovation, pharmaceutical creation and everything on every government computer.

They are to be dealt with at arms length. Why do we train them in molecular biology, viral mutation research, the secretest of secret stun gas field testing, and radical new below bunker and somewhere round here badness. They are stealing stuff every night, vital stuff WE pay for and WE invent. Guaranteed They just take it. If they're caught they get a quiet diplomatic exit. John Huang took CIA intelligence reports, walked across the street to Riyadi east, and faxed them to China. Get those nieces and daughters of the Chicomm military command out of our nation!

I'm biased as can be, I've done business in Asia and the only people I don't like are the Chinese. There's a calculation in every thing they do. I got the "Flee" vibe and I didn't follow up. This was in Taipei incidentally.

[LowOiL]

You can classify my views as social conservative. I think that free-marketeers are not any better than socialists. For me family, religion and nation comes before the market and profit.

Holds out hand to shake..

Low OiL

[Minutemen]

I thought everone in Maine were wealthy lobstermen/land barons?

[ArneFufkin]

The sweat sock craze is over. Your pals might have to form a boy band. The fat lady has been whisked away to Krispy Kreme.

I'm sure you are real team player, a true asset to your employer. A go getter. The Home Office has their eye on you, you're on the fast track champ!

[LowOiL]

I'm sure you are real team player, a true asset to your employer. A go getter. The Home Office has their eye on you, you're on the fast track champ!

You are just baiting now I figure, since you have nothing to add of substance to the discussion. Good bye and happy fishing with someone else. Drop me a line when you have something other than nonsence for bait.

[ArneFufkin]

My only problem is the way that label assumes an economic or vocational fate. There's no limiting boundaries to success and achievement here ... that's what makes America what it is. That's all. Man, 3000 folks in your town laid off? That's a devestation of a community. I hope folks are snarly and proactive, and they keep their family priorities first in line. Was that WorldCom?

[ArneFufkin]

If any sock mill family provider isn't actively pursuing a career makeover they're nuts. You tell 'em Arne said so.

By the way, when the guys from Moldavia and Belarus show up with master electrician skills and $12/hour requirements ... hire them immediately.

[SheLion]

I thought everone in Maine were wealthy lobstermen/land barons?

Nope! Not hardly! You must be thinking about Kennebuckport. That's about an 8 hour drive south of me.

[LowOiL]

Bait refused, keep fishing.

[ArneFufkin]

You would sell your soul and your country down the tubes for a nickel. I can readily see that.

Not at all. I see the world changing in inexorable ways, and I see opportunity. I see that your community will lose your plant ... it's inevitable. You tell me about the automated process, rendering employee handling unnecessary.

That's a positive development for these workers and your community? Nobody plys any expertise or skill in the process? Why couldn't $7/hour employees use no skill or expertise in the position? Why wouldn't a guy down the road buy the same production machinery, hire a labor force eager to work 65 hours a week at 60% of the labor cost of the local mill's staff, call on Wal Mart and beat your mill on price and rush deliveries? Someone will, that's a big market and your local mill is severely disadvantaged.

I hope those good people are talking seriously in pubs, restaurants, at football games and in the garage about the world at hand and all life options.

[mississippi red-neck]

Scott Paper Co. and International Paper company plants. The two plants at their peak employed about 8400 total. Bottom jobs started at around $10 and top about $23 per.hr. when I left about six years ago. I had 32 yrs. at Scott.

I made between $65,000 and $70,000 per year last seven years. Lot of overtime though. IP down completely Scott bought out by another company which shut down a number of other plants in the U.S., about 17,000 jobs total . About 700 jobs left at the plant here, was 4200. Good benefits. Lot of good jobs for the area over the last forty years.

[ArneFufkin]

Think of the truckers, insurance agencies, bankers, real estate agents, office supply stores, gas stations, movie theatres, construction contractors, building maintenance firms, auto dealerships, casinos, restaurants ... the loss of those two employers impacts the entire area in exponentially hurtful ways.

So ... what's the plan? The community has to rally and build an attractive corporate environment and craft a versatile, productive and skillful local labor force.

See, my take is that every experienced and knowledgable ex-employee of those firms know an unmet need they encountered in their duties ... something that was obvious and necessary, but unfulfilled. Some product or sevice that was worth paying for. That's an opening ... if the gap existed in their duties, there are other similarly tasked functions in related firms that are wanting. The smartest thing to do as a entrepreneur/idea guy is to leverage the knowledge and experience and mastery gained in the previous job to full extent. Something wasn't being well served ... till now!