The Sniper: For shooters

10/15/02 | DrCarl

[DrCarl]

Let's talk about this sniper.

First, the guy is being treated as if he must be a "trained sniper", military, police, etc. Meanwhile, everyone I know can shoot as well as anything I've heard him credited with.

He's shooting a .223 varmint round. The media wonders how he can shoot this round out of a bolt-action rifle without the gun's being seen by others, while showing the public various "assault rifles" as the probable weapon being used.

In fact, Thompson Centre (T/C) makes a contender barrel in .223 that's 14" long. It's a pistol. It is easily carried concealed.

Long range scopes can be fit to the Contender. Would night vision optics be a problem?

Some report a rifle shot having been heard. Others not. Might a silencer be in use?

Could this guy be using a Contender?

[NWO Slave]

Report: I was in Falls Church, VA last night

Robert Young, a DC construction worker was at the Home Depot area at the time of the shooting and told investigators he saw the shooter(s). He said he was pulling out and inadvertently blocked two men in a white Astrovan. They were very agitated and sped around him. Here's what he told the authorities: THE MEN WERE MIDDLE EASTERN!!!!!!

[VOA]

Some of the other shots sounded more difficult for the "average" shooter, though.

I'd heard that two of the early shots were pretty challenging head shots...hadn't actually
heard the range of the latest sad event.

Maybe I'm just a naive CSI wannabe, but I've been intrigued why this shooter(s),
if they are so good (one shot-one kill mostly) use a gun that leaves a spent round
for forensic evidence?
I always thought the professional "hit man" prefered to use a revolver, not a semi-auto pistol
in order to take his shell casings away with him from the crime scene.

Why not just jump out of the car with a bolt-action .223, do the single shot
and hop back into the car...heck, he/she/they could have an Uzi in the vehicle if
needed to counter a law enforcement/armed citizen who challenges them.

Like I've said before, this whole "reign of terror" will fill thousands of PhD theses.

[Woahhs]

I have owned a Mac 90 (semi-auto AK variant) that was chambered for standard NATO 5.56 (.223 for the uninitiated). They aren't that hard to find, and they are as dependable as death and taxes. Could be our perp has the best of both worlds, a ubiquitous caliber, in the envelope he grew up on.

[Trailerpark Badass]

As someone who's shot and scored "High Power Rifle" matches, I can tell you that a silencer on a rifle is not of much use, if the bullet is traveling at supersonic speeds. Even if you can't hear the shot itself, as the bullet passes near you, you hear a VERY sharp and loud "crack."

However, the witness will "hear" the ballistic crack as coming from a direction perpendicular to the line of flight of the projectile as it passes him. That is a primary function of a suppressor in sniping, to disguise the shooter's location.

However, I doubt the shooter is using a suppressor.

[Tailback]

Here's a URL to Romanian AK-74 semi auto imports in .223 caliber.

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/AIM_Rifles_1.html

It's the second rifle from the bottom.

[nightdriver]

That .22 Eargesplitten intrigues me!

[OKSooner]

Good questions all. My theory is that he/they fumbled and dropped a cartridge as they were getting away from the scene. Of course, I was thinking bolt-action .223 and it sounds like they're leaking the news that the rifle is actually a Soviet era AK-74. I think we're about to find out for sure, tho. Sounds like they're about to composite the guys as a couple of ME types, according to what I'm seeing on other threads.

Man, FR is the greatest when you want all the news from all sources at once.

[COB1]

I saw that, Slave, and my first thought was, "Were they wearing a turban....or did they have a tattoo on their foreheads that said, 'I'm from Iraq'"?
How does one identify "Middle Eastern"?
I've lived over there, and I can't!

[VOA]

One other thing...
another post (#35) mentions that the parking garage is brightly lit and that Home Depot is
open 24/7.

I don't know if it's equivalent, but I've been to a 24/7 Home Depot in
Culver City, CA at 1 AM.
I left because the place was too busy and the lines at the four open check out were
snaking up the aisles.

Even if it's even remotely similar, but I gotta' say this...pulling off this
shooting sounds VERY b@llsy...
or simply reflects great planning and incredible training and discipline.

Just like the USA did after WWII with Werner Von Braun and his colleagues...
I bet that there are plenty of SWAT teams and US Military snipers cursing
this guy (or the team)...and at the same time curious to hear what this killer(s) would
have to teach them if captured alive.
(that's just my naive speculation as an avid amateur shooter in the past...)

[DrCarl]

>However, the witness will "hear" the ballistic crack as coming from a direction perpendicular to the line of flight of the projectile as it passes him

That's right. From the shooter's position, the crack sounds like it came from 40 yards down range.

[Eaker]

What is really sad is that the Brady Bunch wants to use this as a vehicle to disarm us!!!

The Japanese NEVER intended to directly attack and try to occupy the US because our Militia probably comprises the largest army in the world's history. If there is ever a “boots on the ground” invasion President Bush will call up the Militia and we will kick some ass American Style!!

No, the Muslim’s will use the liberal gun haters and other enabling groups that I do not feel like naming to disarm us and make us sheep ready to be shorn then slaughtered.

This will NOT happen to the Texas Range Rovers!!!! Note the addition to my signature. This will stay until we win the War on Terror.

Stay safe; stay armed.

[DrCarl]

>I see no reason why the shooter would NOT use a scope!

You'd be surprised. You shoot nothing but open, iron sights for years and you shoot better with them than with a scope. Me? I get confused when I look through a scope. If I can see my target with the naked eye, I'm better off with a buckhorn and a blade.

[OKSooner]

Personally, I agree with another poster who points out that these guys made their first mistake by murdering the woman at the HD they way they did. They showed their faces in close proximity to their victim.

Now the end-game.

[humblegunner]

If there is ever a “boots on the ground” invasion President Bush will call up the Militia and we will kick some ass American Style!!

Thank you!
I'll be there with you.

[DrCarl]

>Now the end-game.

I sure hope we do get to the end game because this murderer or these murderers, sure need to get caught. If they stop now and this turns into another anthrax mystery, it'll be hard for many to live with.

I hope they don't kill themselves when they are finally surrounded. We need to know who they are.

[GOPJ]

Good point:

He's not using night vision because all of the victims have been in lit areas.

[Lazamataz]

There's no real way to silence a 223 or any other sort of a rifle round (other than 22 rimfire). Much of the sound involved with rifles is the sonic crack of the bullet and that can't be silenced. Other than that, you might could muffle the escaping gas on a rifle to some extent but even that's harder than with pistols.

Actually, while surfing around on this very topic, I ran across a very interesting article on Soviet 'closed circuit' rounds.

The Russians, during the Cold War, developed something called the Closed Circuit round. It had a tiny bolt inside the shell to kick the round out, and an insignificant amount of gunpowder was all that was needed to drive that miniature bolt. Usually they had to be tapered casings. They were first produced in 7.62, but eventually were produced in all major calibers. They were classified weaponry in the Soviet Union, and were a much lighter load because they don't need as much powder, since the gas pressure never leaves the shell. Its just enough charge to send the round out at 900 fps. The only sound heard is the click of the hammer and the pling of the ejected casing, and the whining whoosh of the round downrange.

[Lazamataz]

Actually, something occurs to me about this description: There would be no pling of an ejected case, since no gas would be available to the gas system in most semiautomatics that would allow the cycling of the mechanism. It would probably not cause an autoloading of the next round in delayed-blowback mechanisms either. It might function okay in recoil-operated weapons.

However, all you'd need to do to get the next round up and ready is to cycle the action manually.