The Sniper: For shooters

10/15/02 | DrCarl

[DrCarl]

Let's talk about this sniper.

First, the guy is being treated as if he must be a "trained sniper", military, police, etc. Meanwhile, everyone I know can shoot as well as anything I've heard him credited with.

He's shooting a .223 varmint round. The media wonders how he can shoot this round out of a bolt-action rifle without the gun's being seen by others, while showing the public various "assault rifles" as the probable weapon being used.

In fact, Thompson Centre (T/C) makes a contender barrel in .223 that's 14" long. It's a pistol. It is easily carried concealed.

Long range scopes can be fit to the Contender. Would night vision optics be a problem?

Some report a rifle shot having been heard. Others not. Might a silencer be in use?

Could this guy be using a Contender?

[DrCarl]

>Possibly using a scope but the shots have all been taken within easy range of standard iron sights.

He took this last shot in the middle of a large parking lot at 9:15 PM. It was a head shot and the woman had to have been moving. She and her husband were getting into their car.

Me? I can hit a deer size target at 150 yards with open sites and a roundball, but I can barely see 150 yards at night. And at a moving target? Head shot?

Not easy.

[niteowl77]

Someone has probably also necked down the .50 BMG to take a .223 bullet... or tried to.

With a scope and a rest, a Contender can easily hit a crow at two to three times the distance of these murders; it would, though, be a terrible weapon if you need a second round quick. They also make one H of a bang with the 14" and shorter tubes, as I know from experience. Given these ranges, a bobbled shot could get the buttswab(s) identified and/or caught- I'd bet against a single loader, unless there is backup.

[SBprone]

It wouldn't make much sense to procure an AK-74. Simple possession of this full-auto rifle means a long stretch in the slammer for anybody caught with one. I don't know of any semi-auto versions that have the external appearance of the military version.

A bolt rifle in .223 is better suited for this kind of terror operation and they are commonplace. Also, 5.45mm bullets are very uncommon and the few types that exist could easily be matched with the recovered bullet fragments by the FBI lab.

[DrCarl]

>it would, though, be a terrible weapon if you need a second round quick

Has there been a second shot in any of these assaults? Didn't I hear that only once, a second shot was taken? Don't know how long he took to reload.

You know, I hate this bas***d, whoever he is. He needs to get caught.

[VOA]

Me? I can hit a deer size target at 150 yards with open sites and a roundball, but I
can barely see 150 yards at night. And at a moving target? Head shot?

I'm with you Dr. Carl.
Whoever the shooter(s) is/are, they are GOOD.
They live up to that One Shot-One Kill credo.

Average Joes/Josephines such as myself know that if I MUST make a hit on an animal
(deer, bear, NOT a human), at range...you go for center-of-mass. NOT a head-shot!

[Eaker]

Sniper Ping!!

Stay safe; stay armed.

[Tailback]

I can hit a head sized circle shooting offhand (standing)at 100 yards easily, this guy is probably shooting prone or sitting. I don't know about Virginia but at the Home Depot here in Salem Oregon the parking lot is well lit at night. What was the range that this most recent shot was taken?

[DrCarl]

>I think he could shoot the same pattern with a T/C at 100 ~ 150 yards with little or no practice at all.

I should get one. I'm a lousy handgun shot. I shoot single shot rifle, offhand well.

[billhilly]

That narrows it down.

[DrCarl]

>What was the range that this most recent shot was taken?

I don't know. The media makes up distances as they go along, it seems. One time I hear 200 yards. The next time, 100 yards. Maybe they don't know. Have they found any brass yet?

[OKSooner]

I heard an account of last nite's shooting that said the guy stepped out of a car and shot the woman from 30 yards, then drove away.

Some of the other shots sounded more difficult for the "average" shooter, though.

[m1911]

Semi auto AK74s are available, I see them in the Shotgun News a lot, along with various ammo. I agree that it's probably not the weapon though, whatever the shooter's motivation and background. I suspect it is an "evil black rifle" for a couple of reasons: It allows the shooter to fantasize about actual combat if that's the brand of sicko we're dealing with, and if it is an ideologically motivated shooter, it will allow him to "take a few with him" when they get him.

[humblegunner]

The pic does not work for me..

Now it does.. problem on my end, no doubt!

[ccmay]

An AR-15 or Mini-14 is probably a good guess as to what he's using

Well, reportedly there is a spent case on hand from one of the prior shootings, and according to one of the posters above, the weapon has been ID'd as an AK-74 . I assume the FBI knows the difference between a .223/5.56mm case and a 5.45x39mm Russian case.

Of course, if it is truly an AK-74, to me this would increase the likelihood that the shooter is a Middle Easterner or other foreigner, as that is a distinctly unusual weapon in this country. In fact it is a select-fire weapon that was manufactured after the 1968 cutoff for full-auto imports. There shouldn't be any legal weapons of this type in the country, unless owned by police or military. Naturally, they can be had by the barrelful in the arms bazaar of Peshawar.

Does anyone know if there were any semi-auto lookalikes imported?

-ccm

[muawiyah]

One or more witnesses described the weapon. To a degree we have to assume they know what they were looking at because many of them were from Arab countries where the AK-74 is standard issue!

BTW, the HomeDepot parking garage at 7-Corners is well-lit and open 24 hours per day!

[Dead Dog]

MSNBC is reporting the weapon to be an AK-74 derivitive. Might by the russian .223 type round, or a sportorized version that fires .223 remmington. Not sure where their info is comming from.

[Dead Dog]

Does anyone know if there were any semi-auto lookalikes imported?

Yes there are, and I believe some are chambered for 5.56 NATO, and I've been told the -74 was designed to chamber the 5.56 NATO for battlefield reasons.

[MarkL]

As someone who's shot and scored "High Power Rifle" matches, I can tell you that a silencer on a rifle is not of much use, if the bullet is traveling at supersonic speeds. Even if you can't hear the shot itself, as the bullet passes near you, you hear a VERY sharp and loud "crack."

And a bullet that light, moving that slowly, wouldn't be terribly accurate.

Mark

[billhilly]

Just joking. Keep up your serious work.

[COB1]

I see no reason why the shooter would NOT use a scope!
Why take a chance of missing?
A head shot at 200 yards with a decent scope would not be a problem.
Besides, the scope would gather light and let him shoot in low light conditions.
As far as the type of rifle used, that's anyone's guess.
There's a lot of .223s out there!

He's using the .223 for ballistics and for noise reduction.
The muzzle velocity achieved alleviates the variation due to distance and wind.
With the right kind of ammo, the .223 is extremely deadly, and the disintegration of the bullet on impact leaves less for forensics to study.

I'm leaning more everyday to a terrorist or a terrorist cell.
I think this might be a pilot run of what we can expect if it works well.
The danger of catching this guy is that he might have ten pounds of C-4 around his middle and a grenade within easy reach.