Posted on 10/15/2002 4:13:51 PM PDT by fooman
MSNBC says that the terrorist used an AK-74. That and the fact the AP witness says that this guy looked Middle Eastern(MSNBC left this out), plus the story about two 'hispanics' at an earlier strike.
Plus the elusivisness and meticuluous planning of this group...
During the Soviet invasion/occupation of Afghanistan, the Mujihadid referred to the AK-74 bullet as the "poison bullet." No doubt due to it's high velocity which caused much internal damage. Septicemia, leakage of intestinal contents into abdominal cavity, simultaneous damage to 2 or more bodily systems, and lack of prompt medical care, lead to excrutiatingly painful demise. Not pleasant. Ever had an infected wound? Imagine it being 3-4 inches internal. Not pretty.
Col Robert K. Brown (ed. of SOLDIER of FORTUNE Mag. and NRA Director) was credited with being first westerner to enter Afghanistan for purpose of obtaining this new ammo from the AK-74. He accomplished his mission. Something CIA had not been able to do...
The AK-74 is a very accurate weapon. If one mounts a KOBRA site, fully adjustable for conditions of low light, accuracy is further enhanced. Almost becomes a MOA weapon. Something most AKs not noted for. And that is shooting WOLF. Better groups can be obtained with BARNAUL or South African ammo. All of which is easily ordered from various suppliers. Less than $100 per 1K round case.
SAR family of Romanian AKs can be purchased for under $300. Not exactly the "Cadillac" of rifles, but they go "bang" every time.
As to this one witness who claims weapon was an AK-74? Would have to know his background to determine his specific knowledge of weapons. The fact he actually saw the shooter and weapon (or claims to) certainly lends credibility as he is the first. The difference between the AK/AR series of weapons is easily noted, even under low-light conditions. Just so completely different.
Good point. I don't know of any oher gun that shoots this cartridge, certainly none on the American market. The police have been kind of tight-lipped lately, so who knows? It sounds like all they are recovering is bullet fragments, I know a .223 FMJ will often fragment into 3 pieces on impact, I'm not sure about the 5.45 x 39MM .
IT doesn't explain the ATF showing a bunch of AR-15's and HK .223's about a week ago saying "These could be the types of gun the sniper is using."
Well, you know how the ATF likes to demonize military-styled semiautomatics. However, I also saw a bolt action varmint rifle on that table. And this guy DOESN'T seem to be spitting out brass when he shoots, especially not in the last shooting, because it sounds like he was seen and didn't have time to look around for spent casings.
Any self-respecting sniper would use something like the .308
Yup, this unskilled non-marksman, using a clearly ineffective, puny girlie-rifle cartridge, managed to KIA 9 people with a single shot from various ranges, without getting caught or EVEN OBSERVED up until his most recent shooting.
Those folks would be at least TWICE as dead had he used some sort of approved SNIPER RIFLE cartridge...50 BMG maybe.
Must be an accident, or maybe luck? / SARCASM.
This guy can shoot - people claiming otherwise are confusing mechanical accuracy with tactical marksmanship, they are NOT the same. Shooting from your cozy benchrest on a cool autumn day, freshly zeroed rifle at the ready, motionless targets positioned with engineering precision, and casually squeezing off that perfect shot - has little to do with making what are apparently nearly perfect CNS shots CONSISTENTLY under intense pressure, at a variety of ranges and from marginal shooting positions against moving targets.
The shooter may not be a USMC Scout Sniper, but he can DAMN SURE shoot better than my Grandma- and she's pretty good.
Whatever the motivation is behind minimizing this guys skills and equipment - does it make us feel better? - the fact remains he's been UNBELIEVABLY successful with his "substandard round" and "mediocre marksmanship".
Everything about this points to a well planned terrorist operation.
This guy takes ONE SHOT. A muzzle brake to control muzzle rise is NOT a concern to a single shot sniper.
My bet is that this guy is using a heavy bedded barrel competition bolt action with a good scope with good light gathering qualities. He would NOT be using one of those less accurate, dreaded -- shudder -- assault weapons designed for rapid fire.
As anyone who's been paying attention to the RKBA debate in this country can attest, the media has a definite agenda and they would be terribly upset if I'm right about this.
But at this point, I don't know what to believe and anything goes. I suppose the AK-74 would be as likely as any. However I had prejudged the assassin would use a bolt action to retain the casing, rather than a semi-auto which might leave behind a casing. I still believe the assassins are using a bolt-action rifle.
Yup, this unskilled non-marksman, using a clearly ineffective, puny girlie-rifle cartridge, managed to KIA 9 people with a single shot from various ranges, without getting caught or EVEN OBSERVED up until his most recent shooting.
You miss the point. Yes, the .223 is entirely capable of killing people. Yes, the attacker has avoided observation. Yes, he obviously has trained for this mission.
HOWEVER, a serious sniper - trained as such by people who truly know the subject - would have behaved differently. While the .223 may do the job, it does not have the assurance of a first-strike kill that .30 caliber rifles have. .308 is considered the minimum adequate round for the job, and if the MD killer had used one we would have 11 KIA, not 9.
Those folks would be at least TWICE as dead had he used some sort of approved SNIPER RIFLE cartridge
No, we'd have 11 dead 0 injured instead of 9 dead 2 injured.
This guy can shoot - people claiming otherwise are confusing mechanical accuracy with tactical marksmanship, they are NOT the same.
You're confusing tactical marksmanship with sniping. There is a difference between hitting a target and running away before someone notices, vs. "one shot one kill" and never being seen. That may seem indistinguishable to most sheeple, but there is a difference. This guy's MO is to shoot people and eventually be found out - that's terrorism.
has little to do with making what are apparently nearly perfect CNS shots CONSISTENTLY under intense pressure, at a variety of ranges and from marginal shooting positions against moving targets.
Pressure for the shooter is limited, as he may pick arbitrary targets at arbitrary times under arbitrary conditions. Head shots - a rather large CNS target - do not require a great deal of practice for those distances. The targets were not moving, being engaged in activities with predictable pauses (pumping gas, loading groceries, mowing lawns, etc.). While the attacker has obviously trained for this scenario, the training is for terrorism as contrasted with sniping.
the fact remains he's been UNBELIEVABLY successful with his "substandard round" and "mediocre marksmanship".
Any average "man on the street" could learn to do the same with just a few hours of training. 9 dead 2 injured out of 12+ attempts is not "unbelievably successful". An 81% kill/hit ratio IS substandard ammo performance. A 92% hit rate at 30-150m IS mediocre marksmanship (and that's assuming we know of all the attempts).
Yes, this killer is good enough for his job. That doesn't make him a "sniper".
except this IS for real .223 and it is a Romanian SAR 3(semi automatic rifle)....where the "3" tells you the caliber is .223. 1 = 7.62 x 39, 2 = 5.45 x 39.
One writer for Shotgun News has noted specifically(as have Second Amendment Sisters) that there ARE long barrel handguns available in this caliber that can be scoped & as accurate as many of the "M16-looking-things" they paraded on teevee. PLUS they are much more conceal-able.
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