What If the 'Beltway Sniper' Isn't Using a Rifle?

CNSNEWS.com ^ | 10/15/02 | Jeff Johnson

[kattracks]

Capitol Hill (CNSNews.com) - Much attention has been focused on the "rifle" used to shoot ten people, killing eight of them, in the Washington, D.C., area. But what if the so-called "Beltway Sniper" isn't using a rifle?

"We're willing, at this point, and able to say that from a 90-percent accuracy, we're dealing with a high-speed-velocity round," Montgomery County Police Chief Charles Moose said Oct. 4, the morning after four people were murdered in the same day.

"We're dealing with someone shooting from a distance," he continued, "someone using a high-velocity round, 90 percent sure that it is a .223 round from a rifle."

Agents with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) later displayed four "samples" of various rifles chambered for .223 ammunition, the round police say has been used in each of the shootings.

Investigators also displayed a number of carrying cases commonly used to transport the types of rifles shown to the media. Authorities have encouraged citizens to phone their toll-free tip line if they see anyone in the area of one of the shootings with a rifle, or with one of the carrying cases.

The public has also been encouraged to contact police about anyone who owns a .223 rifle, who has been acting in a suspicious or unusual manner since the murders began Oct.2.

But Neal Knox - former president of the National Rifle Association's Institute for Legislative Action, who now heads the Firearms Coalition - warned Monday that authorities may be overlooking another possible weapon in the murders - a handgun chambered in the .223 or similar caliber.

Hand-fired weapons capable of firing the .223 or similar rounds include three that provide for the mounting of a telescopic sight, which would improve accuracy at the 100 to 150-yard range from which investigators believe the sniper is firing.

One of the weapons is the Kimber Predator, a modified version of Kimber's M-85 bolt-action rifle. Another is the Remington "Fireball," a bolt-action handgun chambered for the .221 caliber, which was first produced in the mid-1960s. The third is the Thompson Contender, a single shot, "break open" style gun, which is "capable of serious long range shooting," according to the company's website.

The killer has fired a single shot in each of the attacks.

"Because it's smaller, either a Contender or Fireball would be ideal for sniping from a car if you had a sandbag between the butt and the window frame," Knox explained.

Glenn Beach, an ATF firearms examiner, acknowledged the existence of handguns that fire .223 rounds, but claimed they are rarely used, "especially when you're dealing with long ranges, for accuracy's sake."

Dennis Jackson, an advisor to Armed Females of America, disagreed. He told CNSNews.com Monday that it is "very realistic" to consider the possibility that the shooter could be using such a firearm.

"They are accurate for a handgun," said Jackson, who has fired the Thompson Contender. "People need to think outside the box."

Knox estimated the accuracy of the .223 or similar caliber handguns at "about one inch at 100 yards."

"I've shot Fireballs that were capable of 1/4-inch, center-to-center, five shots at 100 yards," he added. "That's as good as the very best specially modified AR-15 [semi-automatic rifles], and as good as many bench rifles."

Handguns chambered for .223 are typically less than 18 inches in total length and approximately 6 inches tall. They could be easily concealed in a nylon or hard sided briefcase, or a padded bag made especially for handgun storage and carrying.

After the eighth murder occurred near Fredericksburg, VA, Friday, authorities closed several interstate highways and other major arteries to search white vans fitting the description of one seen leaving the location of the shooting. Observers noted that police seemed to be quickly looking inside the vehicles for a rifle or storage container similar to the ones shown to the media.

"They're looking for a needle in a haystack because [the .223] is such a common round," Jackson noted. "This is giving them another alternative."

Chief Moose refused to answer questions Monday about the specific type of weapon the sniper might be using, saying, "We didn't come out here to speculate."

Police have been tight-lipped about details of the investigation since media outlets reported the discovery of a tarot card inscribed with the words, "Mr. Policeman, I am God," at one of the crime scenes. Critics say authorities are too concerned with building a criminal case, and that releasing more details could help friends, family members or coworkers of the killer identify him as a potential suspect.

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[ET(end tyranny)]

By the way, using two vehicles doesn't make sense. Why a two-man team? They couldn't communicate without being compromised by NSA, law enforcement, or someone else.

Diversion. Shot fired and one vehicle takes off. Fast enough to be noticed, by witnesses, this would give the shooter a little cover for getting out in the opposite direction/alternate route?

[toddst]

But Neal Knox - former president of the National Rifle Association's Institute for Legislative Action, who now heads the Firearms Coalition - warned Monday that authorities may be overlooking another possible weapon in the murders - a handgun chambered in the .223 or similar caliber.

This article is all about publicity for Neal Knox. He wants press.

Why would a terrorist shooter (let's get rid of the "sniper" word) select a weapon that's more difficult to use than a simple rifle? His objective is to kill and remain at a safe distance (for him.) This is just more Neal Knox efforts to get publicity for himself, this time as some sort of gun "expert." What garbage.

[OKSooner]

Another "Contender" thread...

Speaking of "what if", the thing I hadn't thought of, as someone posted in this thread, is "what if" the .223 casing was a throwdown and he/they are really using some other type/caliber weapon? Has enough forensic evidence been recovered to verify the bullet caliber/type besides the .223 casing?

[aristeides]

I heard a report on local radio this morning that witnesses last night saw the perp get out of a vehicle, fire, and get back in and drive off. I think I heard the report mention a rifle. Even if it did not, these witnesses would almost certainly be able to describe the weapon.

[Joe Brower]

I think that the LEOs and FLEAs are lurking here on FR. $;-)

[tje]

The brass would speak volumes as to the type weapon used. If it's not a red herring. And, while a Contender is a formidable long range pistol, it would not be the weapon of choice if he had to shoot it out to make a get away.

[OKSooner]

I recall at the press conference they had several semiautos, and some bolt guns. A Remington 788, and a Browning, maybe a couple of others.

[Free Trapper]

I would bet the shooter has something with him to put out a lot of lead if somebody gets after him.

[OKSooner]

BTW, as to the "Michael's" connection: Is Michael's privately owned or publicly traded? If it's privately owned, does anyone know the ethnicity of the owner(s)?

[Fiddlstix]

Bump
To read later

[LRS]

A brass catcher on a semi is a real possibilty, but I am having trouble wondering why the killer wouldn't pull off a "double header" if he had a "mutli shot" weapon. Last night would have been a real chance for such hit. The victim's husband would have made for a very easy and quick second shot if he was using a semi.

Threads like this one is why I love FR! Some really good posts!!

[tje]

Agreed. Dollars to donuts this guy is carrying more than one gun.

[TheLurkerX]

I've been thinking Thompson, or a breakapart rifle. I also think it's more than one person. The shooter is probably sticking to his job hours, and doing this before and after. You have one guy who's already scoped the area, and one guy or more to drive the decoy van. Then the shooter either hides the weapon in a pre-determined safe area, goes down to the local Applebee's and has a beer while he watches the news, or he gets in a non-descript vehicle and drives away while the van draws attention. He may even have a third person driving the getaway. My bet is on a decoy driver in the van, and he's somewhere in the vicinity having a beer and watching the chaos he's caused. That would fit with his MO so far, because he's playing with the police and watching the news. Everytime they announce a break in the case, or a suspect, he hits again to make them look stupid.

[Fixit]

I suggested as much on my pitiful blog over the weekend.

Link to entry with photos of xp-100, contender, and a glock 20 modified to fire .224 BOZ.

[TheLurkerX]

He's not using a silencer, but they think he may be using a flash suppressor.

[AF68]

From my personal experience firing my .221 and .223 T/C Contender, there is quite a bit of muzzle blast and flash, especially with the .223 barrel with a muzzle brake.

[marktwain]

Why would a terrorist shooter (let's get rid of the "sniper" word) select a weapon that's more difficult to use than a simple rifle?

Because it makes other parts of his task a lot easier, and it is not always more difficult to use. In some ways, it is easier to use.

His objective is to kill and remain at a safe distance (for him.)

His objective is also to get away and to remain at large. If the police don't bother checking locked breifcases because they are too small to contain a rifle, that could be a big advantage.

This is just more Neal Knox efforts to get publicity for himself, this time as some sort of gun "expert." What garbage.

As Neal Knox won at least one national bench rest championship, I'd say he qualifies as an expert. This is a possibility that the police seem to be overlooking. Most police administrators, especially back east, are ignorant about guns.

I have followed Neal's career for a couple of decades now, and of all the people associated with the NRA, he has been the most consistantly truthful.

[Tijeras_Slim]

Although the TC could be used, I still think the sniper is using a AR-15 variant (perhaps with folding stock ala M4) for the simple fact that he would want the firepower if he is cornered.

[tje]

This was my experience also, but is typical of shooting a rifle cartridge through a short barrel. But I even had a huge muzzle flash with the .44 mag (10 inch barrel), but it was hot load and I used it for deer.

[Kenton]

This is a highly realistic scenario. I have also come to the same conclusion about the bolt action, for the same reasons. No spent casings except the one left next to the tarot card.

A rifle is also a fairly clumsy weapon to shoot from a car, but something along the lines of a TC Contender in .223 fits perfectly.