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Maryland Sniper Shootings Update Thread
CNN, Fox, Local Radio and Television | October 8, 2002 | CNN, Fox, Breaking News

Posted on 10/08/2002 3:36:37 AM PDT by Peach

It's 6:30 a.m. EST and we're waiting to go to the second press conference providing media and local updates on the Maryland sniper shootings. To date, the 13 year old boy has survived the evening and seems to be improving. Fox News mentioned that his aunt is a nurse. The police briefing at 6:15 a.m. mentioned Todd Beamer's Let's Roll comment and police are urging people to use caution, good judgment, but remain strong and try to continue with everyday life as much as possible.

Police had a search warrant last night (didn't say for who or where) related to the sniper shootings, but the search did not provide any information to LEO.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: District of Columbia; US: Maryland; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: banglist
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To: walkingdead
This will leave him with part of the view being blacked out. So take your circle and on the left side of your circle, draw a sliver of a cresent moon from the top crosshair, following the curve of your circle, to the bottom crosshair. This cresent moon blackout you've drawn is what it might look like for someone who the gun/scope is not set up for. Now since he's not in the right place (seeing the whole scope) then he has now changed the place where the crosshairs are pointing. And I believe if he had the left blacked out a little, and put the crosshairs on target, I believe his shot will fall right (opposite of the blacked out crescent) of where his crosshairs are. It's an optical thing.

Except for one item: IF the next shooter(s) can adjust their position to eliminate the dark shadow altogether, the zero is STILL zero.

501 posted on 10/08/2002 10:01:22 AM PDT by ninenot
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To: All
Yesterday I wrote the following post on another thread. Since that time a few new pieces of information have been discovered. I have added the new information to the post and changed some of my assumptions. The new information is in bold and the information or speculation that I am dropping is in Italics.

Well freepers I am going to attempt to organize my thoughts on this.

Throughout this I am using singular in reference to the killer. It may very well be a team effort. No conclusion is possible yet.

First the facts:

1. The killer/killers is using a firearm that fires a .224 diameter bullet.

2. So far the killer has made at least one head shot. The lady sitting on a bench in front of the post office.

3. Several witnesses have heard the sound of a rifle shot.

4. This superceeds the following statement. A freeper was able to give me information on the man killed in DC proper. The area is also relatively affluent. So far all of the shooting incidents have happened in affluent areas.

4. Most of the victims have been shot while in relatively affluent suburban areas.( The exception maybe the man killed in DC proper. I don't know enough about the area to know if it is affluent or not.)

5. The killer fires at most one shot.

6. The killer has scored a hit everytime except once. Then he fired through a pane of glass.

7.It appears that the killer has connected from long range at least once. Reports from yesterdays school shooting indicate that the shot came from 340 yards.

8. Monday's shooting also appears to be from the prone position and resulted in a wound to the boy lower left lung, stomach and pancreas.

Reasonable conjecture:

1. The killer is most definitely mobile in a vehicle of some sort. The killer is either firing from a vehicle or is in immediate proximity to a vehicle.

2. The killer does not appear to be motivated by race. His victims are a mixed variety of different races.

3. The killer shows some concern for escape routes. He is making most of his shots in areas near major through fares.

Speculation:

1. The killer is using a bolt action scoped rifle. Each time one and only one shot is fired. I think if anybody had access to a semiauto rifle more than one shot would have been fired at some time. Also a brass catcher would not have to be used. The one lady who was shot in the head would have been a difficult shot with iron sights only.

2. The killer is most likely using an actual .223 caliber rifle. This is the most common type of rifle available in that bullet diameter.

3. The killer is using FMJ type bullets. Two reasons for believing this. First several of the shots are trough and through. Meaning the victim has both an exit and an entry wound. Most .223 diameter bullets that are not FMJ designs have a very thin jacket that fragments on impact. The first shot at the michaels went through a glass window, part of the cash register and then a book rack. A thin jacket bullet would have broken up. Secondly, a varmit bullet would pulverize a very large area. Two of the vitims in this case had exit wounds about the size of a teacup. I have shot .223 FMJ bullets at animals and this correlates with my experinces. A Varmit bullet would leave a larger exit cavity I think.

4. The killer does not display any great knowledge of firearms. It is possible to learn to do everything that he has done with only one weeks training. Learning to shoot a scoped rifle is considerably easier than shooting an iron sight rifle.

5. The choice of a .223 round is unusual. A person with a high knowledge of firearms would realize that they are seriously undergunned with a .223. Most people will survive hits from this type of weapon. A .30 caliber cartridge would be a surer bet for killing people.

6. The range the shots are being taken from is most likely 200 yards or less. The one head shot would tend to support this as well as the points made in speculations 4 and 5. A .223 would be less accurate at greater ranges due to less residual speed and the greater effect of wind on the lighter projectile.

7. It is highly unlikely that a 22-250 or 220 Swift is being used for the shots. This killer seems to use the KISS methodology. Keep It Simple Stupid. Also, if we accept the they are using FMJ bullets the killer would have to hand load FMJ bullets in those cartridges as I do not believe that anyone handloads FMJ bullets in 22-250 or 22 Swift etc... It is only a .223 cartridge which is commonly found with .224 sized FMJ bullets. This would indicate greater knowledge of firearms which I believe would leave someone to choose a different caliber weapon.

8. The killer has been trained with a rudimentary method of operation that minimizes his risk. First, fire only one shot. Second, do not be too picky, shoot whatever target is available. Third, take you shot from an area which has good escape routes. Fourth, do not stick around and gawk.

9. Again I think the shooter is not an expert. Two other things about the shooters skill level come to mind. First of all he tried a shot through a window. Somebody who has extensively studied shooting would know this was a bad idea as the window can deflect a bullet. Second the use of a .223 round has one significant advantage to a novice shooter. It has very little recoil. It makes a lot of noise but does not have much bite. A novice shooter would have a much easier time hitting within this than with a larger rifle.

10. I think it is likely that two people are being used for the shooting team. One to drive and act as a lookout the other as the trigger man. So far the shooter has not made a mistake like taking a shot in the immediate presence of other people. It is hard to be focused on your shooting and looking all around yourself for potential witnesses.

11. It appears that the killer is not taking all of his shots from a vehicle since the shooters position for yeterdays killing and one of the killings on Thursday has been discovered.

11. The shooter is taking shots from inside a vehicle. The vehicle enclosure would serve to muffle the shot somewhat. The transfer from a vehicle to an outside shooting position would leave the shooter vulnerable to discovery. It would be much less notable if a window was simply left open on a vehicle, which then drove away. This follows the kiss rule exactly.

12. The killer has displayed his relative lack of firearms knowledge again. The wounds on the boy hit on Monday appear to be lower down his body. It is likely that the killer did not adjust the point of impact for the longer range.

13. The killer has changed his method of operation. The first series of shootings were all clumped together. It is likely that the killer was familiar with that immediate area. He may either have lived, worked, visitied friends in that area or spent some time scouting the area. The killer is now taking longer range shots and is not clustering his shootings. He is likely scouting out areas to hunt and then returning to those areas when he is ready to pull the trigger. He is also taking longer shots since people are now looking for him. This show in the survival of the boy and the woman hit on Friday. Neither shot would appear to be as accurate nor have as much punch as the shots on Thursday/Wednesday.

Conclusion:

We are looking for a two person team. It is obvious that in some cases the killer is shooting from outside of his vehicle. The following sentance is wrong. I feel that they are probably shooting from inside an enclosed vehicle, van, truck with camper shell, rv, service van etc. The shooter leaves the immediate presence of each shooting asap after making the shot. The shooter is using a scoped .223 rifle with FMJ bullets. Look for a vehicle with Maryland tags on it. The change in tempo of the shootings from Wednesday-Thursday to Friday and today may mean that some fundamental change has been made in the method of operation. Either a different shooter, different vehicle, or the shooter is assuming that he is at greater risk due to the increase in awareness of everyone in the area

Question:

Is the shooter a domestic nut or terrorist? I believe that a domestic nut would be more likely to use a larger caliber weapon. One poster yesterday took issue with the preceeding statement. They think that a .224 bullet is adequate for this task. I still think a domestic nut would use a larger caliber weapon.They would also be more likely to be operating alone. I would have to believe that we are looking at some form of foreign inspired/directed terrorist.

Disclaimer: I do not pretend to have all of the answers. The above post is what merely seems reaonable to me. I could very well be wrong on many of the individual items in the list. I will try to update this on a regular basis.

502 posted on 10/08/2002 10:06:26 AM PDT by Fellow Traveler
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To: Dog
Oh. Thanks, missed that......
503 posted on 10/08/2002 10:06:50 AM PDT by Joe Hadenuf
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To: walkingdead
***might move an inch at 100yrds"

That's what I was trying to explain to the lady, since this last shot seemed to be a little off, as compared to the others. It's too bad it didn't drift enough to miss all together.***

He said might move an inch at a *couple hundred* yards. The crosshairs are fixed. A skewed focus or parallax has very minor impact in most cases. I know of a few groundhogs that would confirm this if they were still alive. :)
504 posted on 10/08/2002 10:08:36 AM PDT by dasher
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To: Peach
Cautious optimism that the boy is alive and appears to be improving. Still praying though.
505 posted on 10/08/2002 10:09:18 AM PDT by cake_crumb
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To: Fellow Traveler; Pete; GummyIII; longtermmemmory; NCLou
I thought you guys might want to see post # 502. I've not had time to read it yet...just a quick glance.

Fellow Traveler,, thanks for your post..will read it when I get back on line.

506 posted on 10/08/2002 10:12:53 AM PDT by Freedom2specul8
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To: Fellow Traveler
This is very good analysis. I suggest in the spirit of KISS, refer to speculation #9, ...First of all he tried a shot through a window...

MAYBE his target was outside the store, the target moved, the shot missed and went throught the store window.

507 posted on 10/08/2002 10:14:54 AM PDT by relee
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To: YourAdHere
"During one commercial break, they had an 11:00 news tease promising the latest developments in the sniper case. They then followed this up with a commercial for 'Just Shoot Me.' "

Oh GEEEEEZ!

508 posted on 10/08/2002 10:15:12 AM PDT by cake_crumb
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To: ninenot
Yes, of course. You can always (well usually always) contort your body to the right position to have the zero. Problem being, that being contorted doesn't lend well to accuracy.
509 posted on 10/08/2002 10:15:59 AM PDT by walkingdead
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To: governsleastgovernsbest
" Chief Moose is pretty frank about admitting the frustration he is experiencing. But even if he is not the world's greatest crime-stopper, he comes across as hard-working and sincere. His Prince Georges county counter-part seemed, in contrast, less authentic, more political, and clearly in over his head."

Chief Moose has been the only one, that I have seen, who has been gracious enough to thank the FBI Director and the Attorney General for their phone calls and pledges of cooperation. The Democrat operatives use these press ops as quasi political rallies,which is repulsive. The LA mayor did the same thing after the 4th of July, El Al shooting, when he started his gun control mantra. I am surprised they didn't march Great Grandpa Lautenberg (Reagan was younger than Lautenberg, when he left office) out to say a few words. Any bets on when clinton makes an appearance-biting his lip and feeling their pain???
510 posted on 10/08/2002 10:17:02 AM PDT by Wild Irish Rogue
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To: Fellow Traveler
Thanks for the great recap.

I do believe we have a alternating driver-shooter 2 men team. the "new" shooter appears to be more comfortable firing from outside the van, while the first shooter did it from inside the van. The latest shooter seems to be the weakest link and could be responsible for their being caught, unless the other one gets rid of him first...

511 posted on 10/08/2002 10:19:08 AM PDT by Elenya
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To: ~Kim4VRWC's~
Kim, what a lot of work you have done. Thank you!
512 posted on 10/08/2002 10:20:33 AM PDT by Peach
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To: relee
Re the Michaels window that was shot out - it was approx. 5:30 a.m. and I thought that odd but heard later on Fox that an employee was INSIDE the store and barely missed being hit.
513 posted on 10/08/2002 10:23:34 AM PDT by Peach
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To: relee
I don't know if you had posted that thought before but I have read it on one of the posts. It is certainly possible he was shooting at a target outside the store. However, I seem to remember an interview with the cashier at the Michael's store where this happened. She stated that the bullet only missed here by a few inches. I tend to think she was the target.
514 posted on 10/08/2002 10:24:50 AM PDT by Fellow Traveler
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To: Fellow Traveler
Is it true the shot yesterday was from a range of 340? If so, I've got to tell my friends. They were talking about this last night. I think every American male is discussing this. :)
515 posted on 10/08/2002 10:25:24 AM PDT by Letitring
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To: Trident/Delta
Re: Post #364

Thanks for the info....I DID ask anyone who knew otherwise to feel free to post because I was posting from little to no first hand knowledge. I"m not trying to pass along erroneous info on purpose (sigh) Thanks!

516 posted on 10/08/2002 10:25:35 AM PDT by two23
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To: Peach
But, I'll bet there was someone outside that store that simply got in their car and drove away - oblivious to just how close they came to being victim #1.
517 posted on 10/08/2002 10:26:45 AM PDT by Route66
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To: Joe Hadenuf
Rush's fill in says police have BOLO for two hispanic men. When asked could they be M.E.'ers, source said - could be. Then the host went on to tie Gertz's book on 9/11 where a known Al-Qaeda cell was active in Prince George's County in the same town as one of the shootings.

This from another thread running on FR. So we weren't crazy and it wasn't just WND saying BOLO for two Hispanic looking men.

518 posted on 10/08/2002 10:26:52 AM PDT by Peach
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To: governsleastgovernsbest; Wild Irish Rogue
Chief Moose is pretty frank about admitting the frustration he is experiencing. But even if he is not the world's greatest crime-stopper, he comes across as hard-working and sincere.

I agree with you. I was suspicious of another pathetic minority appointment when I first saw him, but he certainly doesn't come accross as an idiot. He might be a bit overwhelmed by the whole thing, but heck, any chief no matter how excellent would have to be...

519 posted on 10/08/2002 10:27:07 AM PDT by Elenya
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To: sneakypete
Not really. All the shooter has to do is stick the barrel out a partially opened window to eliminate most of the sound to him. BTW,why is everybody still claiming he is shooting a rifle? Why not a .223 handgun,like a Thompson Contender or a Remington?

There are a number of regular cars where the rear seat folds down giving you access to the trunk. This allows you to store long items like skis. In such a car, you could be prone on the trunk/folded-rear-seat, pop the trunk open a crack to get a shot, shoot, close the trunk after the shot, and scoot

520 posted on 10/08/2002 10:32:59 AM PDT by SauronOfMordor
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