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To: discostu
Wrong. The employee has the ultimate leverage: they can take their skills elsewhere.

Skills driving a forklift? You've got to be kidding me.

Look, don't blame unions for the incompetence of business owners when they lose at the negotiating table. I'll be the first to say that most unions have brilliant negotiators, but most business owners are beaten before they ever sit down to negotiate. These guys go in with defeat in mind; they say the same thing you do. "How can we ever compete with unions? Gosh, what can we do?" With that kind of attitude, is it any wonder that they get trounced when it comes time to draw up an agreement?

You're beginning to compare white collar to blue collar. You can't do that and expect to have a legitimate comparison. White collar jobs don't need unions for a few different reasons:
1) There are a lot fewer white collar workers than blue collar. That evens up the odds right from the very beginning.
2) Not only are there fewer white collar workers, the "field" of white collar workers is further subdivided by specialty. You are a software designer, someone might be an architect, another is an engineer, etc. So that cuts down on the supply right there, again leveling the playing field.
3) White collar jobs lend themselves more to showing superior skills than blue collar jobs. You might be a genius software designer and no one else in the world can do what you do--you wrote Linux or whatever. That additional skill ability gives you further negotiating power over your employer. Who says that about forklift drivers? What, is there a Mario Andretti of forklift drivers? Of course not--one forklift driver is pretty much the same as any other forklift driver.

So what I'm getting at is that the bargaining position of a forklift driver is a lot different than your bargaining position as a software writer, or whatever it is that you do. Yeah, you can leave and go work for another software design company. Because you have unique skills, you are a valuable asset to your employer (presumably). Forklift drivers and other blue collar workers that make up unions don't have that luxury. They can't say, "give me a raise or I'll quit." It's super for you that you have a unique skill set that gives you leverage over employers, but just because blue collar workers don't have those skills it doesn't mean they should be disallowed from even-field bargaining.

77 posted on 10/07/2002 1:46:36 PM PDT by Viva Le Dissention
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To: Viva Le Dissention
I love that BS, incompitence of the business owners when they lose at the negotiating table?! HELLO, HOW IN THE HELL DO YOU "WIN" AT THE NEGOTIATING TABLE WHEN ALL YOUR WORKERS ARE ON STRIKE AND YOUR BUSINESS ISN"T DOING ANY BUSINESS?!?!?! The gbest the owner can do is hope his pockets are deeper than the unions and out wait them... of course anybody that's looked at the public records of the AFL-CIO knows that NOBODY has deeper pockets than the union and nobody can afford to out wait them.

See that's the biggest problems. Unions don't negotiate. They threaten. Thanks to the power of striking the options faced by all businesses are:
1 - do it the unions' way
2 - go out of business
There's no ability to negotiate in that circumstance. When someone has the ability to unilaterally shut down the business the owners hands are tied.

There are no unique workers in white collar country either. The reason there are 100 software companies in Tucson is because computers geeks grow on trees around here. But I do have skills, and I might be unique within the pool of people applying for Job X or at Company Y. Same thing with a forklift operator, there are different sizes of forklift and different qualifications go into using them.
84 posted on 10/07/2002 2:08:53 PM PDT by discostu
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