US pastor Falwell draws wrath of Iran over Prophet

Iran Mania ^ | October 6 2002 | AFP

[sheik yerbouty]

'ah did not have sex with that woman....Hillary Clinton!

[Darheel]

'Christian support for Israel'

Jesus was a Jew, so that's about 100%. Then there's all the history, Roman occupation, Crusades, so that's another 100%. Then there's the terrible sympathy we feel, our dads and grandfathers fighting and defeating the Nazis, liberating death camps, there's another 100%. Now Israel, reconstituted and backed by America, God-fearin' nation that it is, tack on another 100%...

[Nogbad]

Was there a historical Mohammed?
During Mohammed's lifetime, there was only one non-Arab reference to him in historical documents.
He was referred to as an Arab king.
The Koran, dictated by the Archangel Gabriel, was not written down until 300 years
after the 'death' of the supposed Mohammed.

The Reverend Falwell's condemnation would be somewhat akin to Osama Bin Laden accusing Merlin of being a pedophile.

[chuckles]

....What proportion of Conservative Christians support for Israel is based on prophecy versus morality? ....

As a Christian, we believe we have been adopted or "grafted in the Vine(Jesus). I have all the rights and privleges of a child of the King. We believe that we will rule and reign with Jesus in the Mellinium. We are told to pray for the peace of Jurusalem.

Now is when it gets tough(for some). I believe(others disagreee) God chooses his people. I have been pre- destined from the foundation of the world to be His. The Jews were chosen to reveal the Oracles of God to the world. The Jews are not saved by this, but are considered His people. Whether you belive Jesus was Mesiah or not, The Jews revealed Him to mankind. I'm not so connected to the Jews as I am Israel. Jesus made it plain that some Pharasee's would go to hell if they weren't reborn. The whole world must look to the Jewish culture, writings, etc. to find God because they are chosen to reveal Him. We learn things like ; follow God=blessed, dis God=not blessed. I believe the Jews will be rewarded that were faithfull in their beliefs and Jesus will be revealed to them. I believe as a dead person, The Holy Spirit MUST reveal Jesus to you or you will never find Him, as you are dead. There are some references that say "All Israel will be saved" and there is one in Zach 11(I think) that makes reference to a breaking of the bonds and covenents when the Jews rejected Jesus. Ya got me on that one. I just believe that God is interested in what happens to Israel so I am too. I believe the Jews own the land over there and the deed is in Genesis.Orthodox Jews have everything they need to find Jesus in the Torah.If they would read the New Testament, I can't believe they couldn't see Jesus as Mesiah. Like I said, The Holy Spirit is our teacher and reveals Jesus in the Scriptures.

As a secular twist, I think the Jews are smart, industrious, and strong people. I would never bet against them.

P.S. Anyone claiming to be a Christian and anti-Semetic, is a liar. Not possible.Jesus was a Jew. He claimed them as His people. First the Jew and then the Gentile.The Jews for Jesus prefer to be called "Believers". Abraham was considered by God to be a rightious man just because he believed God. Noah also,because he belived God. When God said, at the Baptism of Jesus in the Jordan river, "This is My Son, In whoom I;m well pleased.", do you believe God? You can never be rightious enough for God if you think he is a liar.

[knighthawk]

As far as I know the koran was written down during mohammed's life.

http://www.thekoran.com/imk/chap0703.html

[Nix 2]

ARTICLE

O'REILLY, FALWELL, AND THE SAUDI FIASCO
(Or why O'Reilly seems to have lost it.)
October 6, 2002
By Nix Two

O'Reilly recently did a talking points memo on his show decrying Jerry Falwell for calling Muhammad a terrorist. He was wrong to beat up on Falwell, and Falwell is right. Ever since he screwed up his arrogant ploy with the Saudis, who manipulated him beyond anything he was capable of undoing, and set back literally years of work and preparation to help some of these American girls held captive in Saudi Arabia, he sounds like someone who has been turned upside down and had his head bounced off the floor.

When he realized that all was not going to be what he thought he had trapped the Saudis into on public television, he began backing off immediately. Instead of doing the honest thing, the right thing, and appearing on his own show to tell the public that the Saudi conditions placed on him were intolerable, he did everything in his power to destroy any credibility of this woeful effort.

O'Reilly is not a stupid man, but he was in the middle of an adrenalin rush after having forced Pepsi to drop the commercials of a rapper whom he considered anathema to the children which these commercials were aimed at. He had won almost every battle in which he had joined or thrown down the gauntlet. On THIS night, the Saudi Financial Minister appeared on his show. He was so full of himself he thought he had yet another *gotcha* moment. But the Saudis are masters at this game.

At this point, I ask you to stop and think what happened therafter. Finding that he would NOT be in charge as he had evidently thought, his first response was to assign a FEMALE producer to deal with the Saudis who have absolutely no use and no respect for females in general. O'Reilly HAD to know that was an egregious error, so I can only assume it was done on purpose to take the heat off himself for a real catastrophe...not only for Pat Rausch and her daughters, (who had not the slightest chance to even ask a question on their own since they were accompanied by a media *advisor*, whose husbands were a room away, and whose children were still back in Saudi Arabia,) but for every single American woman or girl who had made contact with people who were trying desperately to facillitate their escapes from what can only be called virtual imprisonment.

What O'Reilly did for ratings, probably cost lives, definitely tightened Saudi security around these woman and young girls for years to come, and his treatment of Pat Rausch was unforgivable.

Now he has gone on the attack against Jerry Falwell for telling the truth about Muhammad. Someone needs to sit him down and remind him that he is just a man after all.
Here is a small part of the proof needed to prove that Muhammad was, indeed, a terrorist.

Special Dispatch - Islam
July 24, 2001
No. 246

The Prophet Muhammad as a Jihad Model

Al-Jazeera's weekly religious program dedicated a special
for the Prophet Muhammad, as a model of a Jihad warrior,
and discussed the modern implications of this image.(1)
The guest in the studio was the head of the Islamic law
faculty at Qatar University, Sheik Yussef Al-Qaradhawi, who
is a leading authority in the Muslim world today, and a
spiritual leader of the 'Muslim Brotherhood' movement.
Following are excerpts from the discussion:

The Unique Characteristics of the Prophet Muhammed

Sheik Al-Qaradhawi began his discussion describing the
unique characteristics of the Prophet Muhammad when
compared to the prophets that preceded him: ..."The
prophets that Allah sent prior to Muhammad were sent for a
limited time ...and to a specific people." ... Allah
established in the life of the Prophet Muhammad general,
eternal, and all inclusive characteristics, and he gave
every human being the possibility to imitate him and take
his life as a model."

"The Christian is incapable of imitating Jesus regarding
war and conciliation since Jesus never fought or made
peace. He is incapable of imitating him regarding
marriage, divorce, parenthood, and family, since [Jesus]
never had a family, never had a wife, a father, or a
grandfather."

"On the other hand, Allah wanted Muhammad's life to be a
model. For instance, if we examine the question of
marriage, he who has one wife can follow the Prophet
Muhammed since most of the time Muhammad lived with one
woman; whoever has more than one wife can also [follow
Muhammad's example]; He who marries a virgin, he who
marries a non-virgin... He who marries a young woman, he
who marries an old woman [all can follow Muhammad's
example]."

"Similarly, Allah has also made the prophet Muhammad into
an epitome for religious warriors (Mujahideen) since he
ordered Muhammed to fight for religion ..."

The Urgency of Jihad Against Israel

Sheik Al-Qaradhawi explained that several types of Jihad
exist and the prophet Muhammad launched an armed Jihad only
when he arrived at Al-Medina. During the years he spent in
Mecca, he supported unarmed Jihad, contrary to what his
companions were demanding.

The interviewer, Maher Abdallah, asked how this relates to
the lives of Muslims today, whether they should restrain
themselves while preparing for Jihad, or launch an
immediate armed Jihad. Sheik Al-Qaradhawi replied: "The
youth who wish to hurry to establish an Islamic state with
an Islamic rule seek clashes with the existing regimes in
the Arab states despite the fact that they don't have
sufficient strength; they don't have military strength and
not even the mental strength to establish an Islamic rule."

He also mentioned that during the period of the Prophet
Muhammad in Mecca, his friends pressured the Prophet to
shatter idols displayed in Mecca. However, the Prophet
ruled that the time was yet to come, and he even signed the
Al-Hudaybiya agreement with [his adversary] the Qureish
tribe. Only two years later, the Prophet Muhammad decided
that the time had come to conquer Mecca, and he "picked up
a lance" and hit the idols.

Sheik Al-Qaradhawi added, "On the other hand, there are
some things that cannot wait; for instance, when the land
of the Muslims is being invaded. When that happens, we do
not say 'let's wait, we will surrender to them and only
then [we shall see]'...no! In that case, Islam requires
that the people of the invaded land will fight the
invaders... and following them, their neighbors. And if
this is not enough, all the Muslims [must enlist for this
purpose]. Hence, a problem like the current Intifada and
the Palestinian problem is one that cannot wait; the nation
must fight and defend itself and not allow the invader to
ruin the land..."

The interviewer argued that some Islamic law experts
believe the Palestinians are like prisoners, and thus, not
required to fulfill the duty of Jihad. Sheik Al-Qaradhawi
however rejected this notion and argued that the only law
expert raising this claim was the Albanian Mufti, and he
referred only to the Palestinians who are residents of
Israel. "Wise law experts say that if a woman is taken as
a prisoner in the East and the people of the East are
unable to free her, the people of the West must fight a
holy war until she is freed."

"[If such an order is given] regarding a woman, it is
obvious that when it is the homeland that was captured, the
land of the The Prophet's Ascension to Heaven (Jerusalem),
the land of the prophets and holy places, and the first
direction of prayer (Qibla) - the Muslims around the world
must make every effort to save the Al-Aqsa Mosque and to
help the residents [of Palestine], since the Al-Aqsa Mosque
is not the property of the Palestinian people only, but of
each and every Muslim..."

Preparation For Jihad

Sheik Al-Qaradhawi argued that there are two types of
Jihad: "A Jihad which you seek, and a Jihad in which you
repulse an attack." In the Jihad which you are seeking,
you look for the enemy and invade him. This type of Jihad
takes place only when the Islamic state is invading other
[countries] in order to spread the word of Islam and to
remove obstacles standing in its way. The repulsing Jihad
takes place when your land is being invaded and
conquered... [in that case you must] repulse [the invader]
to the best of your ability; if you kill him he will end up
in hell, and if he kills you, you become a martyr
[Shahid]..."

"There are various ways to prepare for Jihad: there is
mental preparation, there is physical preparation, and
there is material preparation, meaning the preparation of
the weapons. The messenger [Muhammad] prepared all his
friends first mentally since equipment and weapons cannot
fight by themselves, but rather need hands to operate them,
and those hands must also have a purpose.

"Why were we defeated in 1967? Officers stated that we had
vast amounts of weapons but we did not provide the warrior
with mental preparation. We did not prepare him to fight
for religious belief and for defending religious
sanctuaries. We are the oppressed, and the duty is on us.
He who got killed is a [Shahid] in heaven... the first
assignment is to prepare the hero who is willing to put his
life in his own hands for Allah's sake, and he who does not
care whether he encounters death or death encounters him..."

Suicide Bombings

Sheik Al-Qaradhawi - who throughout his recent appearances
has declared that Palestinian suicide attacks are
considered "self-sacrifice" and not suicide, and thus are
permitted and even welcome from a religious standpoint -
was again asked about this issue. He argued that the
person who commits that act "is not a suicide [bomber]. He
kills the enemy while taking self-risk, similarly to what
Muslims did in the past... He wants to scare his enemies,
and the religious authorities have permitted this. They
said that if he causes the enemy both sorrow and fear of
Muslims... he is permitted to risk himself and even get
killed."

Jihad and the Arab Regimes

Sheik Al-Qaradhawi, who usually calls for coexistence with
Arab regimes, had reservations about allegations that they
prevent Jihad against Israel: "The matter is not as simple
as it is presented [to the general public]. It is not true
that if one ruler [or another] was to be replaced
everything would change. There are great forces within the
[Arab] society that support the regime... especially among
the intellectuals who are described, unfortunately, as the
elites. These elites have westernized, and the
westernization of their thought and culture corrupted the
Arab regimes. The cultural invasion, the cultural
colonialism, the westernization - call it what you want -
reshaped the way these elites are thinking, and turned them
into foreign elements amongst their own people. We must
change them, and this is why the campaign continues and it
must continue on different levels - on cultural,
educational, social, traditional, and political levels, on
the level of constitutional reforms, political reforms, and
the granting of freedoms to peoples, including freedom for
Jihad..."

"It is incumbent upon us to maintain some kind of contact
with the present rulers so we can act. How could we
strengthen the Intifada? We are unable to do anything
[without those rulers]. At the very least, the Intifada
must go on, intensify, become more sophisticated, and
broaden its base. And we must take whatever we can from
the current rulers who are incapable of fighting... we must
act within the parameters of the current restrictions..."

Endnote:

(1) Al-Jazeera Television [Qatar], June 19, 2001.

[knighthawk]

Very interesting.

And I believe the interview was not ment for Western people to view it:

In the Jihad which you are seeking, you look for the enemy and invade him. This type of Jihad takes place only when the Islamic state is invading other [countries] in order to spread the word of Islam and to remove obstacles standing in its way.

[elfman2]

"Get real. IT'S ALREADY A HOLY WAR. The Islamists have already declared war on America. They consider us enemies. The sooner we realize that the enemy is not muslim terrorists, but MUSLIMS, period, the sooner we can get down to business and get rid of the threat."

Okay genius. Please explain to me how in this supposed "HOLY WAR" the Muslim nation of Jordan's already letting us launch special operations from their soil an build logistical and medical facilities there. Why did the Muslim nation of Pakistan put their hands over their eyes as we routinely passed through their land on the way to and from Afghanistan? Why is the dominantly Muslim nation of Turkey already working with us to prep insurgents and shore up airbases in Northern Iraq? Why did a division of M1 tanks just get pulled out of Europe and was just spotted on trailers in Muslim Kuwait? Why have we been building a massive air base in Muslim Qatar for the last year? What's your guess as to why as an atheist I'm in full support of this "holy war"?

Falwell's just a media hungry opportunist, but if other more respected religious and political leaders didn't take the presidents lead and refrain from making this into a holy war, Muslims would be more united and we'd have a much more difficult battle with Iraq and thousands more good Americans would likely have to die to do what we're poised to do.

We are not and have never been in a holy war. That's un-American. It runs counter to everything this country stands for. We don’t declare war on ideasinternally or externally, as some idiots here suggest, we declare war on behavior, i.e. international terrorism. If we ever had a leader who listened to Internet forum fools and attempt to do so, I and a hundred million other good Americans would oppose him.

[Nogbad]

Folk Tale

[DaughterofEve]

I watched that segment last night...what in the world did you think of the very last closing statement that basically said that God had to be taken out of the equation in order for the Jews to survive as a people...it sounded pretty blasphemous to me!

[Pablo64]

Fallwell wasn't quite correct. Mohammed was a pedophile who was also a terrorist.

[Alouette]

what in the world did you think of the very last closing statement that basically said that God had to be taken out of the equation in order for the Jews to survive as a people...it sounded pretty blasphemous to me!

That was an idiot liberal "Jew." They do not like to be reminded that there is such a thing as gee oh dee. Why do you think that most reformed temples have turned into gay and lesbian social clubs?

[wgeorge2001]

"What proportion of Conservative Christians support for Israel is based on prophecy versus morality?"
All of it. The Bible clearly states that Israel will be the place where the Lord Jesus Charist will
rule and reign from during the 1000 years kingdom age following the tribulation period; Revelation 20:1-10
and Zechariah 14:1-20 are among the bible chapters and verses that answer your questions along with many of
the old testament prophets including Isaiah, Jeremiah,Ezekiel ,Daniel and others.
Morally, we support Israel because the Lord God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob made a covenant with Abraham
giving him and his seed the land and a people forever; see Geneisis 12:1-7 and 13:14-17.
The Lord has and is and will use Israel to fulfill all prophecy becuase He has chosen them to be a people
who He works through to bring in the final age of this old and dying world. Please search the scriptures to verify.

[wgeorge2001]

"What proportion of Conservative Christians support for Israel is based on prophecy versus morality?"
All of it. The Bible clearly states that Israel will be the place where the Lord Jesus Christ will
rule and reign from during the 1000 years kingdom age following the tribulation period; Revelation 20:1-10
and Zechariah 14:1-20 are among the bible chapters and verses that answer your questions along with many of
the old testament prophets including Isaiah, Jeremiah,Ezekiel ,Daniel and others.
Morally, we support Israel because the Lord God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob made a covenant with Abraham
giving him and his seed the land and a people forever; see Geneisis 12:1-7 and 13:14-17.
The Lord has and is and will use Israel to fulfill all prophecy becuase He has chosen them to be a people
who He works through to bring in the final age of this old and dying world. Please search the scriptures to verify.

[galt-jw]

robertson says same. both correct.

[DaughterofEve]

It's good to hear your response and clarification...my mouth literally fell open at his closing remark.
Does he hold any alleged position of authority? I wasn't sure who that was.

[fogarty]

Can you explain why Muslims around the world cheered at 9-11? Why Muslims even here in the US (American citizens!) did not condemn the 9-11 attacks? The fact of the matter is, the goal, the final solution, of Islam is the destruction of the West and Israel. Islam does not tolerate other religions, and their ultimate plan is to establish sharia in every country on the planet. This is not me or Falwell saying this - this is coming from the mouths of the highest Muslim religious leaders.

Muslims around the world have already declared war on the United States. It does not make much sense to stick our heads in the sand and continue to court their acceptance.

[Alouette]

Does he hold any alleged position of authority? I wasn't sure who that was.

No, I never heard of him either. What was his name, Halper or Galperin? The guy who is always protesting the Israeli "war crime" of "house demolitions."

Seems to me they purposely avoided talking to Jews like Rabbi Daniel Lapin or Yechiel Eckstein or Freeper Alouette.

[elfman2]

I'll take your refusal to answer my question as an indication that you don't have an answer. You haven't thought this through, you're just reacting, and until you can honestly reply to my previous post rather than evading it with counter questions, there's no point in taking you seriously.

[Uncle Miltie]

They found the ignore G-d faction of Judaism, and put him on TV. When Abe Foxman can accept Conservative Christian support, you know 60 minutes had to dig hard to find a dissenter.

BTW - A large fraction of Judaism is secular; they don't attend synagogue, and ignore all the commandments.