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Next Mideast trigger may be a wall
MSNBC.Com ^ | Oct. 5 ,2002 | ASSOCIATED PRESS

Posted on 10/05/2002 11:22:54 PM PDT by Bobby777

Palestinians, Israel fight over repairs of sagging holy site

JERUSALEM, Oct. 5 — Israel is moving toward fixing a huge bulge in a wall of the Old City of Jerusalem that archaeologists say is near collapse, threatening to set off a new explosion of Mideast violence. The 35-foot-long protrusion is in the southern wall of the Al Aqsa Mosque compound, around the corner from where Jews pray at the Western Wall. The mosque is built on the ruins of the biblical Jewish Temples and the site is sacred to both religions.

(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: cupoftrembling; islam; israel; jerusalem; judaism; templemount
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"Everyone is dealing with politics, but the wall doesn't care about politics," says Eilat Mazar, a Hebrew University archaeologist.
1 posted on 10/05/2002 11:22:54 PM PDT by Bobby777
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To: dennisw; Alouette; Lent; streetpreacher; Jeremiah Jr; Davea
ping time ...
2 posted on 10/05/2002 11:25:14 PM PDT by Bobby777
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3 posted on 10/05/2002 11:27:57 PM PDT by terilyn
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To: Bobby777
Ya gotta love religion!!! Sometimes I think it's the preserve of the insane.
4 posted on 10/05/2002 11:55:44 PM PDT by zarf
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To: Bobby777
The Pali's did not figure out that you should dig with a backhoe instead of a bulldozer when you are behind a wall... Doh!
5 posted on 10/06/2002 12:07:03 AM PDT by American in Israel
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To: Bobby777
American news outlets usually omit mention of the significance of the Temple Mount to Christians.

While there remains some doubt about the precise location of most sites associated with the life and career of the Master there is no doubt whatsoever that the location of the temple at Jerusalem was upon this mount and that here transpired many significant events in the life of this teacher from Nazareth.

It was here where Joshua ben Joseph was presented for redemption in accordance the law of Moses, eight days after his birth.

It was here where Jesus was received for the first time as a citizen of Israel and son of the law as a thirteen year old. It was here where, after this consecration, he sat at the feet of the teachers and by the sagacity of his probing questions became, not the youthful student, but the wise and enlightened teacher.

It was here where he taught all who would hear him and where he became aroused in indignation at the clamour of secular commerce enriching the priests in a house devoted to the Creator of all things.

It was here where he declared, "There is but one commandment, and that one is the greatest of all, you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, with all your mind and with all your strength. And the second commandment is like this first: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. There is no other commandment greater than these; on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

And it was here where having been redeemed by payment of five shekels, this babe in arms, this Jesus, was recieved by Simeon, the cantor, who sang, "Blessed be the Lord, the God of Israel, for he has visited us and wrought redemption for his people; he has raised up a horn of salvation for us all. He has delivered salvation from our enemies and from the hand of all who hate us that we should serve him without fear. And you, child of promise, shall be called the prophet of the Most High; you shall give the knowledge of salvation to his people; you shall shine upon those who sit in darkness and in the shadow of death; you will guide our feet into the ways of peace. My eyes have seen your salvation, a light for the gentiles and glory for your people Israel."

The Temple Mount is as holy a place to Jesus' followers as any place on earth.

6 posted on 10/06/2002 12:07:10 AM PDT by concentric circles
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To: American in Israel
I was gonna ping you ... glad you replied ... heads up next week ... Sharon is going to meet with Bush and that's a signal for Islamic terrorists to try and punish Israeli citizenry by an attack, attempting to disrupt any American-Israeli cooperation ... I'm certain they would try it in the United States more if they could ... they are attempting to alter public opinion that American-Israeli cooperation comes with a high price tag ... this was one of their main messages on 9/11 ... which is why the Saudi scumbags and many Egyptians just whistle and look the other way towards those attacks here and in Israel ... be safe ...
7 posted on 10/06/2002 12:26:26 AM PDT by Bobby777
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To: concentric circles
yes and it was at the Eastern Gate of Jerusalem that the Islamics, under the Turkish rule, set up a graveyard blocking the gate ... trying to keep Christ out because He is a Levite priest, who are forbidden to go through graveyards ... amazing, eh? ... well, since He can resurrect the dead, I don't think that old graveyard (1517 or so) is gonna be a problem ... He'll deal with it ...
8 posted on 10/06/2002 12:28:45 AM PDT by Bobby777
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To: Bobby777
forbidden to go through graveyards

That's a good one!

9 posted on 10/06/2002 12:35:14 AM PDT by concentric circles
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To: Bobby777
AMEN! Every knee shall bow and every tongue WILL confess that JESUS CHRIST is Lord of ALL.
10 posted on 10/06/2002 12:39:15 AM PDT by canalabamian
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To: Bobby777
The mosque is built on the ruins of the biblical Jewish Temples and the site is sacred to both religions.

This is really strange on the part of Muslims. Jerusalem is NOT ONCE mentioned in the Koran.

What you will hear Muslims allude to is Sura 17:1 when it comes down to Jerusalem. It simply states, "Glory be unto Allah who did take his servant for a journey at night from the Sacred Mosque to the Furthest Mosque." Now, that "Mosque" could be anywhere, but they insist on it being in Jerusalem.

But keep in mind that the name "Jerusalem" is not found in the Koran.

11 posted on 10/06/2002 12:41:46 AM PDT by rdb3
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To: Bobby777
Only Kohanim(priests) may not go through a cemetary.
12 posted on 10/06/2002 12:44:00 AM PDT by sheik yerbouty
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To: rdb3
was with my college-student niece at Barnes and Noble the other day ... given the liberal professors at her college, I picked up a koran and started showing her various passages ... 5:51, 9:5, 4:171, etc. ... she was quite surprised, to say the least, at what they said ...
13 posted on 10/06/2002 12:49:07 AM PDT by Bobby777
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To: sheik yerbouty
more details, please?
14 posted on 10/06/2002 12:49:46 AM PDT by Bobby777
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To: rdb3
and Jerusalem is reportedly mentioned 800+ times in the Bible ...
15 posted on 10/06/2002 1:08:37 AM PDT by Bobby777
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To: Bobby777
It's spelled out in Leviticus. Will try to find it tomorrow.
16 posted on 10/06/2002 1:43:18 AM PDT by sheik yerbouty
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To: concentric circles
Hey, could you post Chapter & Verse for your quotations from the Book?
17 posted on 10/06/2002 5:00:15 AM PDT by Vic3O3
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To: concentric circles
It was here where Joshua ben Joseph was presented for redemption in accordance the law of Moses, eight days after his birth.

I think you are confusing circumcision (performed on the 8th day) with pidyon ha'ben (redemption of the firstborn son) performed on the 30th day.

18 posted on 10/06/2002 5:41:13 AM PDT by Alouette
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To: Bobby777
It figures that Israel is one that has to pick up the pieces of the Islamic mess on the Temple Mount. The Islamics keep building and destroying any vestige of Jewish interest on that site while at the same time making the entire site a danger zone. Isn't it ridiculous how the press brings up the issue of the structural problems potentially setting off more Jihadic insanity - as if their own wanton and reckless actions could be blamed on the Jews again.
19 posted on 10/06/2002 11:31:01 AM PDT by Lent
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To: Bobby777; Thinkin' Gal
Daniel 12:11
"And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days.

...from the time...

John 19:30
   So when Yeshua took the sour wine He said, "It has been accomplished!" And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

Matthew 27:51
And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent...

1290 years from 30 [CE] = 1320

Now what was 'set-up' in Jerusalem in 1320 CE?

The Content of Abu Madein Al-Ghouth's Legacy:

  It is noteworthy to register the contents of a document by the great learned scholar, Abu Madein Shu'eib Ben Al-Mujahed Abu Abdallah Moh'd Ben Al-Sheikh Al-Imam, the Blessing of the Muslims, and the rest of the ancestors, Abu Madein Shu'eib Al-Maghraby Al-Ottomany Al-Maleky, who was buried in Telmesan. This document, written on 29 Ramadan 720 H (2 November 1320 CE) during the life of the grandson, indicated that he had dedicated two places, which he had been running by himself. The first place was the village of Ein Karem and consisted of plains and rough terrain, houses for its people, orchards of pomegranate, olives, figs and oak trees, water wells, and old Roman vineyards. The document showed the borders of the village from the four directions: Al-Malha Al-Kubra south, Ein Qaroun, Qalounia, Harash, Sataf and Zawyet Al-Bukhtyari north, Ein Al-Sheqaq west, and Al-Malha Al-Kubra and Beit Marmeil east. 

                            The second place is located in Jerusalem itself known as Qantara Asabat Um Al-Banat at Bab Al-Selsela, including a large building (Ewan), a large house, a yard, a facility and an underground store and a cellar. Although the document had showed the limits in great detail of the one in Ein Karem, it did not do the same for this one; however, it did show its four limits, especially the eastern side which ends at Al-Buraq. The document added that this legacy will remain through the ages and it has been confirmed throughout its history. The document added that both Ein Karem and the Ewan have been dedicated to the Moors in Jerusalem or those visiting the city regardless of their color, trade, sex, age or status, and nobody could fight the Moors over this Waqf, which they could make use of it in different ways, such as rental, agriculture or sharing, and the priority will be for the newcomers then the indebted and so on. The document stated that the revenue of these estates should be given to the Moors in Mecca and Medina, but if there is nobody to take it, the revenues should be sent to the two Holy Shrines. Concerning the estate attendant, he should be elected by the Moors in the cities themselves after the death of Abu Al-Ghouth, and this attendant has to be an honest and pious Muslim who takes care of the estates and invests them properly
http://www.palestine-info.co.uk/jerusalem/thestoryofabu.htm

And Al Buraq is...

The Western Wall

Al-Buraq mosque is a small mosque that can be reached through the corridors of Al-Aqsa, then you have to go downstairs, where it is believed that Al-Buraq which carried Mohammed upon whom be Allah's blessing and peace - from Mecca to Jerusalem. The length of the Western Wall (Al-Buraq Wall) of Al-Haram is 45 meters. Jews alleged that it's the remain of the temple wall that was destroyed in 70 AD, but no substantive proof has emerged.

In 1929 the Jews started to work against the « status quo », bringing in seats, lamps and curtains, which made the Palestinians protest, and that sparked « Al-Buraq revolution » in August 1929, where more than 116 martyr fell, three others were executed namely Ata Zeer, Mohammed Jamjoom and fuad Hjazi. The Moslems are the sole owners of it, but Jews were given the right to pray under conditions set by the committee.
http://www.bma-alqods.org/englishsite/visit14.htm

What does the UN have to say?

LETTER DATED 23 FEBRUARY 1968 FROM THE PERMANENT REPRESENTATIVE OF JORDAN ADDRESSED TO THE SECRETARY-GENERAL

For the information of the members of the General Assembly and the Security Council, I am transmitting a report entitled:

"Report of the Commission appointed by His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, with the approval of the Council of the League of Nations, to determine the rights and claims of Moslems and Jews in connection with the Western or Wailing Wall at Jerusalem".1/

This report embodies the findings and decisions of the Commission that was appointed to determine the rights and the claims of both the Moslems and the Jews in connexion with the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem. The Commission consisted of three jurists from Sweden, Switzerland and the Netherlands, namely:

ELIEL LOFGREN, formerly Swedish Minister for Foreign Affairs, Member of the Upper Chamber of the Swedish Riksdag (to act as Chairman);

CHARLES BARDE, Vice-President of the Court of Justice at Geneva, President of the Austro-Romanian Mixed Arbitration Tribunal, and

C.J. VAN KEMPEN, formerly Governor of the East Coast of Sumatra, Member of the States-General of the Netherlands.

The Commission held twenty-three meetings, during which it heard arguments and engaged in hearing evidence. It heard fifty-two witnesses, twenty-one presented by the Jewish side and thirty by the Moslem side, and one British official called by the Commission. It examined all reports, dispatches, memoranda, minutes relative to matters connected with the Wailing Wall.

The Commission has established the following important facts:

1. That the ownership of the Wall as well as the possession of it and of those parts of its surroundings belong to the Moslems and that the Wall itself, as an integral part of Al-Haram-Esh-Sharif area, is Moslem property.

2. That in no stage of the examination of this matter did the Jewish side make any claim of ownership either to the Wailing Wall or to the Magharba Quarter or to any part of the areas now subjected to Israeli usurpation or so-called "Israeli development projects". The Commission stressed that the Jewish side, when making their claim, expressly stated that they "do not claim any property right to the Wall" (page 17 of the report, para. 3).

3. That no matter how the Jewish claim is construed, it does not exceed a claim for a privilege to visit the Wall and that this privilege has even resulted from Moslem tolerance.

4. That even the pavement and the area coincident with it were Moslem property and constituted Moslem Waqf by Afdal, the son of Saladin, in 1193 A.D., i.e. Moslem religious endowment owned in perpetuity by the Moslem community.

5. That the Magharba Quarter buildings, which were recently bulldozed by the Israeli authorities, were put up in 1320 A.D. "to serve as lodgings to Moroccan pilgrims" and were also made a Moslem Waqf by Abu Madian.

6. That the Moslems of Jerusalem were always alert to the Jewish attempt to exploit Moslem tolerance in order to claim at a later stage, a right to ownership. In 1911, the Guardian of the Abu Madian Waqf (Magharba Quarter) complained that the "Jews, contrary to usage, had placed chairs on the pavement, and he requested that `in order to avoid a future claim of ownership´ the present state of affairs should be stopped". The Arab side argued that after stools would come benches, the benches would then become fixtures and before long the Jews would have established a legal claim to the site. As a direct result of the complaint, the British Administrative Council decided that it was not permissible to place any article on the pavement that could "be considered as indications of ownership".

7. That the British Government stated to Parliament in the White Paper of November 1928 that the Western or Wailing Wall "is legally the absolute property of the Moslem Community and the strip of pavement facing it is Waqf property, as is shown by documents preserved by the Guardian of the Waqf".

More at: http://domino.un.org/...

The abomination that causes desolation...
The Moslem Waqf on the Temple Mount

20 posted on 10/06/2002 1:29:01 PM PDT by Jeremiah Jr
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