Another DC-area sniper-style shooting

Wife (FReeper nina0113) | October 4, 2002 | Steve0113

[Steve0113]

Another broad-daylight shooting just occurred, this time in Fredericksburg, VA, just off I-95. It's not even on the news yet.

About an hour's drive south of where the Montgomery County shootings happened, a woman was shot in the parking lot of a Michaels fabric store. My wife was in the store at the time. The victim had left the store and carried her purchases to her minivan. She unlocked the minivan and was loading her stuff into it when she was shot. No sign of the shooter.

No one else was injured.

The woman was taken away in an ambulance, condition unknown. Her license plate (which I'm not going to post) indicated that she had several children.

[WRhine]

One guy, no not much of a leap. Two guys, as some reports indicated (as well the circumstantial "evidence"), not bloody likely. It doesn't even really fit the one guy gone nuts scenario anyway, because those types tend to bunker up and/or just go in and fire randomly. Then they wait to commit suicide by cop, or just do it themselves.

Yes, it is statistically freak to have 2 cold-blooded killers work together on a killing spree. While the odds of one killer this like this rare; two together is rarer than simply multiplying the odds of 1 killer by 2. If there are 2 killers in this case I’d say the odds that they are Islamic Terrorists are pretty good.

[Frank_2001]

MOSTLY law-abiding, eh? All it takes is a couple who aren't. Only a guess, but this might be the "religion of peace" in action...hope the SOB is found soon!!

[sissyjane]

Thank you. I too wish some posters would just take it outside. If they can't get along,they should just please be quiet.

[ninenot]

yah, but the point is if it's zeroed with a bipod, shoot with a bipod. If not, don't. THey don't have to build a benchrest--all they need is a bipod. Even LOWER profile.

[Joe Hadenuf]

Thanks babe........

[ninenot]

Yeah, it does. But if this series of shootings is a terrorist act, same conclusion.

I can't buy the "explanation" of TWA 800 given by the Gummint--and it was a lousy PR job if it was terrorist.

In the case at hand, maybe the terrorists will 'fess up only AFTER they are done. Might be a while yet.

[tgslTakoma]

Did you notice how close that shooting on Georgia Ave. was to Takoma Park, tgsltakoma?

Yes, I did. It's part of my commuter route home some evenings. Depending on the time of day, I drive right past the shooting location. Some nights when I'm coming home from a night on call I stop at the McD's for a milk shake.

Last night I heard of the Georgia Ave shooting as I was driving home from a call, so I came straight home via a different route.

Tonight listening to the media briefing, and hearing that the DC shooting is part of the sniper attack, I'm getting really pissed-off. So much so that I have said "pissed-off" three times tonight rather than my usual polite "PO'd."

And again, now that this DC shooting is linked with three of the others, Kalmia Rd and Georgia Ave is within sight of Jessup Blair Park.

Investigators should be able to get an idea of direction of shot fired, by examining wound path, shouldn't they? Will they tell us if the shots appear to have been fired from the park-like areas in the vicinity of the shootings?

(big sarcasm alert)
OK, I am now convinced that there is nothing to see here. And it's definitely not a terrorist event. I'm going to take a shower now. And tomorrow I will go shopping. (Not bloody likely, Doug Duncan!)

[Neil E. Wright]

I don't know if anyone has corrected your ERROR yet, as I haven't finished reading the thread. This was MY U.S. Postal M1 Carbine, with a standard straight stock and a metal folder and bayonette. All 100% LEGAL to own, without a Class III license. Also had about 12 magazines, including 30-rnd and 15-rnd. I did go buy a couple of 5-rnd magazines to make it legal for hunting with the straight stock ... :)

Toward FREEDOM

[FreeTheHostages]

It's a theory.

But for my local friends, I have some good news: just caught the local news and the DC shooting team is headed up by Lt. Dave Jackson.

This guy is brilliant and has tons of common sense and uncommon bravery. Lt. Dave Jackson's really one of the very best. It's really good news he's on the NW shooting. (I am personally aware of a case where Lt. Jackson's quick thinking on a crime scene helped to catch a serial killer that the FBI and everyone else was looking for 'round 1992.)

[El Gato]

Press seems uncertain on the racial breakdown, as your post indicates.

That's because "Hispanic" is not a race, it's an ethncity, and really just means a Spanish speaking person of the new world. For example I know a "hispanic" whose name is something like Sven Nielson, he's from Mexico City. Hispanics may be white (say from Chile or Argentina) or Black (Cuba or other Carribean area) or brown, which itself is really a mixture of white and red (that is AmerInd)

[FreeTheHostages]

oh thanks! That's really helpful and helps explain why the press is confused too. Feel stupid I didn't think of it, but thanks for taking the time to explain. You have to be right bout that.

[tgslTakoma]

you keep your eyes open down there lady, ya hear ?

I'll keep them open, tomkat; not sure that it would do me any good, tho. I don't think any of these poor people saw what was coming.

[tomkat]

well, you know ...
g'night

[El Gato]

Is this different form the .223 Remington that's been around since the 60s?

No except as to details of bullet design and sometimes powder used. 5.56 NATO, which is what the military calls it, was evolved from the .222 and so Remington, who did the evolving, calls it the .223. The AR-15/M-16 was first introduced into the military (The Air Force, IIRC) in the early 60s, there are pictures of JFK firing one, although it didn't become widely issued until a bit later.

[FreeTheHostages]

"Investigators should be able to get an idea of direction of shot fired, by examining wound path, shouldn't they? Will they tell us if the shots appear to have been fired from the park-like areas in the vicinity of the shootings?"

As per above, the guy who's in charge of DC's end of the one DC homicide, Lt. Dave Jackson, is actually really really good. He will totally get the crime scene right. Re will they tell you what they know: unless there are leaks, no. Actually, the by-the-book approach here will be to say as little as they can about the angle of the shot etc. That's for lots of good reasons. First, so that, when they catch the creep, and keep him up for 3 days on coca-cola, if he says stuff that members of the public don't know that will incriminate him. Second, so they don't teach his prospective criminal defense attorney too much about the crime and get that attorney working early on inventing a pack of lies. Etc., etc.

Here's a tougher question: if they knew something which, if known by the members of the public, would affect our safety precautions but would disclose details of the crime, would they tell us? Answer: if this was just a DC investigation, probably not: very highest goal is catching the guy. But this is region wide and FBI is on it, so the answer in probably yes.

[FreeTheHostages]

Be careful. We all like you, you know.

[El Gato]

Sounds like fun, but even that would be over too quickly. Now, fire ants...,

A .22 short, with an externally lubricated bullet, that's been dipped in...well lots of possiblities but... porcine excrement, that's been ripening for awhile, might be appropriate. No antibiotics. They'll be a long time going, and they'll know that it was in an "unclean" manner. :)

[aristeides]

I had forgotten about Jessup Blair Park being close. Aren't there pretty big parking areas on Eastern Ave.? Would they also be within sight of the shooting scene?

[Prodigal Son]

Maybe, but it sounds mighty familiar to me. I used to wire and assemble harnesses for the military. (sub-contracted work) I worked on the M1 line. If I remember right it was a General Dynamics product. Abrams?

Sometimes the military has the same nomenclature for totally unrelated pieces of equipment. For example, an M16 can also be a Plotting Board use to compute Mortar Firing Data and there's also an M16 mine. An M60 could be either a Patton tank or a 7.62 belt fed machine gun. FWIW.

[FreeTheHostages]

Some facts about DC & Homicides

You'd think something this bad just *had* to be the work of a seriously demented Islamic fundamentalists. Indeed, no one can say that it's not. I don't disagree with posts here suggesting that it well could be.

However, you all may wish to know that DC has its own tradition of serial killers. Seriously pathological young kids. Kids so cruel that the older felons don't want to commit crimes anymore because there's no way they want to serve time with this new young crowd of criminals in this city.

We're talking about people that rape their competing drug dealer's girlfriends. We're talking about kids who are "enforcers" and off people without blinking. And we're talking about a police department that feel-good Chief Ramsey won't discipline and make people actually do their job. If the DC police spent half as much time policing as they do cooking the books on crime statistics, my city would be so much safer.

But in my recollection, there's never been a random serial killer in DC for the last 15 years. There's been serial rapists (many --Ray Smith, Donald Hatch, etc. etc.). But never a killer who repeated so often who didn't have an economic motive. It would be unheard of as far back as my criminal justice memory goes (1987). There was, way back when in the 70s, the Pagan motorcyle gang, which kill a black man based on race: those guys were *planning* to kill more people, but they got stopped and arrested. (There is a Pagan motorcycle gang still about somewhere near Laurel, MD, and they all are still a bunch of racists.)

So, while I don't underestimate crime in DC, or its brutality, I dunno about a DC person. To go all the way out of their hood and kill elsewhere? It's just not like the type of evil criminals we have in DC.

If the "white" victims were ethnically and visibly Spanish, I'd say the choices are terrorist or racist. All speculation, to be sure.