Terror link to Maryland shootings? Experts divided whether killing spree work of al-Qaida

WorldNetDaily.com ^ | Friday, October 4, 2002

[infowarrior]

SHooter 2.5 has consulted Jane's which I agree is definitive, and it appears that I was given bad training back in 1974. I apologize for any confusion...

the info0warrior

[Shooter 2.5]

No problem.

[spunkets]

Thanks.

I should note I dropped the 1/2 out of, E=1/2*m*V² and my memory also turned what was supposed to be 5200ft/sec gas V into 3000. I think the flame temp. is ~3000^o. So all the ft-lbs, except the loss of the 308 between 100 and 200 yds (32ft-lbs/10ft) should be 50% higher' or:

308 => 2708 ft-lbs
45ACP => 542 ft-lbs
22LR guess at 1gr powder => 60 ft-lbs

Since folks hear on a decibel scale though, the crack from a 308 is still of the same loudness as a 22 mblast at the same distance.

[Shooter 2.5]

During the times I worked the target pits, I don't recall a difference between the two calibers.

[spunkets]

Diff between which cals?

[wardaddy]

The only ancient stuff around here that survives untended are Indian mounds and various campaign redoubts.

[Shooter 2.5]

.223 and .308 didn't seem to have much of a difference in the sonic booms. I already described the sound like a 3/4 in. wooden dowel snapping a foot from the ear.

[FreedomPoster]

Unless there has been a cartridge case recovered from the scene,

If the perp(s) is a pro, a "found" case could easily be a red herring. I think all we really know is "high-powered rifle" (possibly a TC; rifle round, at least) and five dead.

Fundamentally, we really know very, very little. Despite some excellent conjecture on the thread.

[spunkets]

The sound depends on the speed and the energy loss as it goes along. Considering the E loss during flight for most bullets is about the same they should sound the same.223, 308, 270... If the speed+cross section is significantly bigger, it will be louder. 300Winmag, 338, 378weatherby, I posted those numbers to show the total E loss is not significant enough to arouse people in a building, or do much deafening, even if the whole E goes to crack.

I could always tell the diff. My neighbors used to shoot along the front of my house. It's a narrow valley at that point. The rounds would pass within 16ft(8ft to the front door). I can imagine a hardwood dowl crack would be it from that distance. Even if I stood in the doorway(8ft) it still wasn't that loud, less than my daughter shooting her 22 with friends right in front.

[wardaddy]

No offense but I can sure tell the difference between a .223 and the other two. The difference between the 270 and .308 is a lot harder to discern.

The report of a .223 versus a .308 is like comparing a .32ACP to a .357 mag in my view.

[bootless]

A pro was sent in from outside the US, to "jump start" sleepers still around by example. JUST my SWAG.

That makes a lot of sense.

[spunkets]

"The report of a .223 versus a .308 is like comparing a .32ACP to a .357 mag in my view."

We were talking the sound of the bullets in flight as they pass nearby, not the initial muzzle sound. Shooter2.5 has experience with 223 & 308 rounds going by as a target tender.

[wardaddy]

OK

[Travis McGee]

If this is a terrorist and not a deranged redneck, he could very well be in communication with the FBI, (prepaid cell phones, pay phones etc) and the FBI might decide to keep his ID a secret.

[Travis McGee]

A short barreled .223 is a lot louder than a long barreled one also.

[TheLion]

Interestingly, part of the up-coming Gov race in Md. is about gun control.....hmmm.

[wardaddy]

Like this one:

The M1 model comes in .223, I'll let you go first...lol

[Travis McGee]

Gracias pero no gracias.

[xsrdx]

Making highly accurate shots from 100m with a handgun, built for long range shooting, isn't hard.

I didn't realize Contenders could do 1/2 MOA - obviously they are accurate enough to do the job. That's better than most purpose built precision rifles. Maybe a T/C in 22-250? The short barrel would be exceptionally loud I would expect.

Silhouette is a game of stationary targets at known ranges, and while this guy might have used a rangefinder it's still a lot tougher to get precise hits on moving targets with a handgun than with a scoped long gun.

[Travis McGee]

Fireballs like 22-250 aren't used too much in that type of shooting. They try to match the caliber and load to the shorter barrels to get the best burn for length. The world record pistol group (5 shots in about 4" I believe at 600 yards) was done with someting like a 6mm wildcat at a fairly moderate velocity around 2500 fps or so.

As you said, range finding is key, which is more of a problem for a sniper than a target shooter working on a known range. In my novel, the female shooter uses the T/C Contender in 5.56mm because it shoots flat and tends to cause people to look for a long rifle shooting man.