Twenty-three year old man shot dead by police in a marijuana raid

Dayton Daily News ^ | 10/01/02 | Cathy Mong

[Trailerpark Badass]

I'm sure your Generalissimo Soros would agree with you.

Ah yes, the boogey man, Mr. Soros! Can't let a thread pass without invoking the name of the boogey man. It seems like you'd pee your pants if you ever saw him in person.

[Roscoe]

Every single one of those findings and declarations deals with commerce.

Not quite. BTW, the commerce clause pre-dates the New Deal.

You could substitute "bicycles" for "drugs" throughout the entire findings and declarations of the CSA and still have an entirely worthy set of findings and declarations.

Nonsense. Naturally.

[Hemingway's Ghost]

Not quite. BTW, the commerce clause pre-dates the New Deal.

It does? Good Lord---you're kidding me. All along I thought the 20th century pre-dated the 18th. Imagine my surprise . . .

I've said all along the issue was what constitutes interstate commerce, but now that you've pointed out that the Commerce Clause predates the New Deal, I can easily see how you're a Master of the Obvious, Southern California-style.

You could substitute "bicycles" for "drugs" throughout the entire findings and declarations of the CSA and still have an entirely worthy set of findings and declarations.

Nonsense. Naturally.

False. Citeless, sourceless, blah blah blah.

[tacticalogic]

Doubt it. Probably leave that to someone else. For now he'll be happy just to have pissed you off. It's a troll thing.

[Havoc]

Nice propaganda. You seem to forget My first stepdad was an alcoholic. Sell your screwball notions to someone else.

If you've passed out drinking you haven't killed more brain cells than a lifetime of smoking or I'd be dummer than that hip burnout I referenced earlier. I used to drink like a fish and have passed out from it a number of times in my youth, It hasn't touched my IQ (still genius + level) nor has it debilitated me in any way. Hmm. Could your propaganda be bouncing off the truth.. hmmm

[md2576]

Nice propaganda. You seem to forget My first stepdad was an alcoholic. Sell your screwball notions to someone else.

Not that I want to, but I would have to agree that studies have shown that alcohol does not kill brain cells but rather damages dendrites — the branched ends of nerve cells that bring messages into the cell.

But I also say that Marijuana has similar non-permanent damage, minus the delirious tremors due to withdraw and the many deaths incurred from alcohol consumption. Among other adverse effects we are all aware that alcohol inflicts.

To Havoc:

"Could your propaganda be bouncing off the truth.. hmmm"

If you say alcohol is not addictive then how could you possibly call your stepdad an "alcoholic"?

Could your hypocrisy be clouding the truth?

[md2576]

"I'd be dummer than that hip burnout I referenced earlier."

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[Havoc]

Responsible for doing something that responsible society doesn't do - break the law because they don't like it.
And polls are about as useful as binoculars for a blind person. Polls can tell you anything you want to beat out of them. They tend to lie as often as tell the truth. And when the numbers don't look good, then the tendancy is to estimate. The fun that the press and collegiates normally has boils down to taking their polling to liberal strongholds where the numbers are dispraportionately large and then projecting the percentages on the rest of the US.
See how that works. Allows you to say that because the population of homos is large in San Fran and New York they are a large percentage across the entire country. Demonstrably untrue; but, that's how the game is played.
But who gives a hoot. The numbers could be far greater than what you're stating - why do I care? If the entire US goes bonkers tomorrow and decides 12 year olds should be able to run for president, do we follow opinion or what's in the interests of the common good of the nation. The founding fathers spoke to this rather plainly in stating that the Congress should be tempered and not swayed by the mood of the moment. Gee, wonder why..

[Hemingway's Ghost]

The founding fathers spoke to this rather plainly in stating that the Congress should be tempered and not swayed by the mood of the moment. Gee, wonder why..

Havoc, are you arguing in favor of the Drug War or against it?

[md2576]

"If the entire US goes bonkers tomorrow and decides 12 year olds should be able to run for president, do we follow opinion or what's in the interests of the common good of the nation"

Are you suggesting that legalizing marijuana is comparable to this idiotic statement of having 12 year old presidents? This jumping off a bridge theory of your is as idiotic as your belief that alcohol should stay legal and pot should not!

I would have to say that the whole US has not suddenly gone bonkers and now want to legalize marijuana.

Had alcohol been illegal in your youth do you believe it would be worthy of getting shot because you had a beer?

[tpaine]

And what do you think you're doing roscoe? - "Winning?"

You are supporting big government unconstitutional programs. That is not a 'win' for a free republic.

[Hemingway's Ghost]

You are supporting big government unconstitutional programs. That is not a 'win' for a free republic.

And this gets right to the crux of the matter of whether or not a conservative should support or not support the Drug War. You and I and scores of others have argued that we shouldn't, our opponents have never argued that we should. Never.

[FormerLurker]

Just because a court decides the way you like Roscoe doesn't mean that the decision is constitutional. Oh I forgot, you are of the mindset that the Constitution is a "living document" that is subject to change by judicial fiat.

[md2576]

"do we follow opinion or what's in the interests of the common good of the nation"

Who's opinion first off? Do we follow the majority of the states opinions on what is unconstitutional? YES!

Otherwise, we leave it up to a few close minded individuals like yourself to decide what the nation wants.

"The founding fathers spoke to this rather plainly in stating that the Congress should be tempered and not swayed by the mood of the moment."

You obviously have never heard of the Volstead Act and how the 18th Amendment was repealed in a mere 288 days.

It's obvious the United States Constitution, upon which we ultimately rely for the preservation of our form of government and our sacred individual liberties, is highly vulnerable to the force of public opinion.

[Havoc]

You know what, you're right. The whole US hasn't gone bonkers and doesn't want to legalize Pot. It's just a small group of nutcases that thinks the public gives a hang that ya'll feel mistreated because you don't want to obey the law. Thanks for drawing our attention back to reality.
Will the next maggot infested, long haired, hippy type pinko step up with his nonsense so we can put this one to rest. I thought all these guys scurried back into the darkness after 9/11 when the public had no belly for your nonsense. Go back to Mordor and leave the decent people alone.

[md2576]

"It's just a small group of nutcases / Go back to Mordor and leave the decent people alone."

It's funny that you call me and everyone else who smokes, or doesn't smoke, "maggot infested, long haired, hippy type pinkos"

since 80 years ago they would have called you the same thing for drinking Alcohol. I guess we should just look at people for what they are huh?

Gays must all be sacrilegious and go to hell as well as be abolished.

Blacks should all be slaves

The list goes on.........

Just shows what popular opinion can do to a society huh? I guess if "a small group of nutcases" who believed we shouldn't institutionalize mentally handicapped people hadn't spoke up we would still be a backwoods, inbred, maggot infested country.

Just the way you like it huh?

[Havoc]

What you want to be treated fairly for breaking the law.
How about I just call you a crook. A criminal. A boil on the but of society waiting to cost us money when we jail your butt for gettin caught with a joint in your mouth.

And yes we should look at people for what they are. If you smoke dope you are a criminal. If you want to try to fast talk the US into decriminalizing your uncontrollable criminal urges, we'll call you the tiny group of drug infested losers you are. I'm not picking on you because you smoke pot. I'm infuriated you could come in here as a lawbreaker and try to convince us we should just try to understand you. Perhaps we should decriminalize bank robbery and understand bank robbers. There is no difference between the two save for the type of victims.
Druggies hurt the people they know. Bank robbers hurt everyone.

If you seriously think I'm going to give you kid gloves over this nonsense you should put out the joint and stop trying to play the martyr. Here in the real world people expect you to act like an adult and understand there are things civilized society won't put up with - criminal behavior included. I learned that a good long time back.
What's stopping you? Hmm. If you want to break the law, you can wear the stigma that goes with it. Your doing, your choice. Don't whine about it. Or do you not want the baggage that goes with your poor choices.. I'm sure murderers don't like the death penalty. But if they didn't want to die, they shouldn't have put themselves in the chair. The law is the law. You guys might as well argue that Satanists' constitutional rights are infringed because they aren't allowed to commit human sacrifices - doesn't really stop them; but, it's illegal immoral and is not tolerated in civilized society. Stop whining, it's annoying.

[Tired of Taxes]

The whole US hasn't gone bonkers and doesn't want to legalize Pot. It's just a small group of nutcases that thinks the public gives a hang that ya'll feel mistreated because you don't want to obey the law.

Gee, Havoc, I don't smoke dope. I won't even take over-the-counter medications when I'm ill. I even gave birth without the benefit of anesthesia. Three times. I think experimentation with drugs (either legal or illegal) is stupid. And, yet, I am pro-legalization.

Like you, not long ago, I thought the legalization of drugs was a non-issue. But, now I must admit that the WOD is ridiculous. We spend billions of dollars trying to save people from themselves. And only from SOME drugs. Meanwhile, the U.S. gov't REQUIRES people to take other dangerous drugs (i.e. parents to medicate their children, threatening to take them away if they don't).

Not only don't I take drugs or legal medications, but I don't smoke cigarettes or drink alcohol. I think that's stupid, too. But, does that mean we should make those things illegal? If the majority of Americans wanted to prohibit tobacco sales or usage, should we make cigarettes illegal?

[Roscoe]

Just because a court decides the way you like

Every court.

[Roscoe]

All along I thought the 20th century pre-dated the 18th. Imagine my surprise . .

Judging by your posts...