Three big powers tell US it's wrong on Iraq

Herald ^ | September 30, 2002 | Caroline Overington

[Torie]

Three big powers tell US it's wrong on Iraq

By Caroline Overington, Herald Correspondent in New York and agencies

September 30 2002

The United States was last night considering the implications of leading an attack on Iraq without the support of Russia, France and China, after all three rejected a US draft plan for dealing with President Saddam Hussein.

The US revealed at the weekend that it wanted to give the Iraqi leader 30 days to open his borders to weapons inspectors under new, strict conditions, or face a military strike.

The new conditions, which were quickly rejected by Baghdad, would include allowing weapons inspectors unobstructed access to factories, military bases and Saddam's presidential palaces.

The US wants the United Nations Security Council to adopt its plan as a binding resolution, but Russia, France and China, three of the council's five permanent members, have already said they do not support it.

Russia's Foreign Minister, Igor Ivanov, emerged from 90 minutes of talks with US diplomats to re-state Moscow's opposition to a military strike, telling reporters the UN should accept Iraq's offer to allow weapons inspectors to return before making threats.

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"UN weapons inspectors should return to Iraq as quickly as possible," he said. "The necessary conditions for this exist."

France also appeared unmoved by US pressure, with a spokeswoman for President Jacques Chirac saying weapons inspectors should return to Iraq before threats were made because of "the seriousness of the decisions to be taken and the consequences".

The Chinese Premier, Zhu Rongji, said China had "respect for Iraq's sovereignty and territorial integrity".

"If the weapons inspections do not take place, if we do not have clear proof and if we do not have the authorisation of the Security Council, we cannot launch a military attack on Iraq," he said.

Washington's lone supporter among permanent members of the council is Britain. In London, the Defence Ministry said it was preparing to add 4000 troops to the 60,000-strong US force already in the Gulf region.

President George Bush used his weekly radio address on Saturday to signal a willingness to proceed without the support of all members of the Security Council, saying: "The Iraqi dictator must be disarmed. These requirements will be met, or they will be enforced."

The US and Britain sent senior diplomats to Moscow, Paris and Beijing over the weekend in an effort to win support for their campaign, but met strong resistance from Russia and France, both of which have historic friendships with Iraq.

A US undersecretary of state, Marc Grossman, who has visited Moscow and Paris with the political director of Britain's Foreign Office, Peter Ricketts, said all nations appeared to agree that dealing with Iraq was "a challenge".

US and British diplomats are using two main arguments: first, that Saddam has obstructed the work of weapons inspectors so many times that the threat of force is necessary to make him comply this time; and second, that Iraqis support the invasion.

This latter point is the more contentious. The US is using diplomats who have travelled widely in Iraq to make the case that the people of that country, and in particular its women, want a change of regime as much as Washington does, and would welcome a US-led strike in the same way as citizens of Afghanistan did.

[hunter112]

As the Frogs say, c'est la vie.

At least they should be thankful they're not saying it in German.

[marajade]

Then Bush should publicly state what the deals are and forget the UN.

[EGPWS]

They just want "deal's". China wants a free (or more free) hand to deal with Taiwan and their "economic zone".

Seems to me that we we have dealt enough to China's benefit throughout the '90's thanks to "the schlickmiester"

[dark_lord]

Then Bush should publicly state what the deals are and forget the UN.

Come on. You know we don't want to encourage the riff raff. Everybody knows there is deal doing going on, but not the terms. Keeping the terms secret keeps the price down for everybody, right? Of course, maybe not. Keeping the terms secret lets politicians sell out the future for cake today.

[Nam Vet]

"This war has started, and it will become more evident as time goes on."

I also believe the war has already started. About 2 weeks ago or so, one of our sorties had 100 planes. Now THAT'S NO regular patrol.

Nam Vet

[BulletBrasDotNet]

Who cares what these backward cowards think? They were not bombed. We were. They can buzz off.

[MadIvan]

Fine.

Very well, the UK and USA, alone.

Regards, Ivan

[Happygal]

I've seen you post that picture before Ivan.
Where is it from?

[MadIvan]

It's a cartoon by David Low, mo mhúirnín bán. He drew it after the fall of France in World War II, and Britain was on its own in the fight.

This was later said to symbolise the resolve of the country. ;)

Best Regards, Ivan

[ATOMIC_PUNK]

Tell the three big powers to watch this and say the US wrong on Iraq

[Happygal]

This was later said to symbolise the resolve of the country. ;)

The resolve of the country, and the dogged determination of it's people. I really like that 'toon. :-)

...I can't believe I'm posting nice stuff about those Brits ;-)

[BulletBrasDotNet]

It was not conducted by 100 planes. It was 100 sorties.

[MadIvan]

...I can't believe I'm posting nice stuff about those Brits ;-)

I will return the compliment, mo mhúirnín bán, and point out a bit of your history. Some 190 Irishmen have been given the Victoria Cross in the past, the highest award for bravery, but here is one from World War II:

ERVINE-ANDREWS, Harold Marcus

During the night of 31 May/1 June 1940 near Dunkirk, France, the company commanded by Captain Ervine-Andrews was heavily outnumbered and under intense German fire. When the enemy attacked at dawn and crossed the Canal de Bergues, Captain Ervine-Andrews, with volunteers from his company, rushed to a barn and from the roof shot 11 of the enemy with a rifle and many more with a Bren gun. When the barn was shattered and alight, he sent the wounded to the rear and led the remaining eight men back, wading for over a mile in water up to their chins.

Better? ;)

Best Regards, Ivan

[aruanan]

Russia, France and China

It's not surprising to see why Russia and China would be opposed to the interests of the U.S.: when the U.S. (and Great Britain) are successful, there will be one less region of the world to draw our attention away from them, one less region of the world for them to sell arms to. If GW's activities with the nations of West Africa are successful, we will have a challenge to China's activities with the Muslims in Africa and will also hurt the market for Russian oil.

As for France: the present French civilization is a fungus growing on the corpse of former glory. And let's not forget to remind the French, when they get all huffy about American cultural imperialism, that were it not for the American root stock sustaining their wine industry, it would long ago, like their empire, have dried up and blown away.

[Happygal]

Well, I always knew my country men were either extremely brave, or slightly nuts :0)

Do you know if he survived the war?

And thank you for the history lesson..please feel free to educate me at your leisure ;-)

...laughed initially when I saw the name Ervine..it just rhymes with Irving! *L*

[MadIvan]

Well, mo mhíle stór, apparently he survived and achieved the rank of Lieutenant Colonel. You ought to like him, he was an Irishman commanding a company of Brits. ;)

I am digging up other bits for you - but here's an indication that the Germans didn't really respect your neutrality in World War II:

German Bombings of Ireland in World War II

And it's not the North we're talking about either.

Best Regards, Ivan

[Happygal]

I've actually met people who remember the bombing of the Creamery in Campile by the Luftwaffe...It's really interesting to meet people who have a living memory of history.
Thanks for the link.

Imagine, DeValera sent the commiseration card to Germany. *Tsk*

[MadIvan]

Imagine, DeValera sent the commiseration card to Germany. *Tsk*

That would only have been in good taste if the note read:

Dear Germany:

Sorry you lost your Fuhrer, he was a man, contrary to popular belief, who had his good points. After all, he killed himself.

Yours sincerely, Eamon de Valera

Best Regards, Ivan

[Happygal]

~spluttering soda all over the computer screen~

DAMN! That's funny! :-)

[CyberAnt]

Who cares what they think! Who have they ever rescued anyway??

Besides, we have the UK, Spain, Italy, Australia, and a multitude of smaller countries.