Posted on 09/26/2002 3:18:04 PM PDT by Sweet_Sunflower29
Why is this a news item? Has anyone ever challenged this well-known fact?
LSD dependency??? How many LSD addicts are there in America? Drug "Schedules" are a creation of crimal law, not a reflection of objective reality.
BTW, heroin would probably be an excellent heavy duty pain killer, but abuse has made its medical use politically unfeasible.
I wonder what will be the long term delayed effects of Ritalin? Any educated guesses? Maybe some physician or pharmacist is here?
And tobacco might inhibit it!
It's none of the government's damn business who smokes, snorts, pops or injects what!! End of story.
But FF578 wants to make it his business:
FF578 writes: Prohibition would have worked if we made possession a Capital Offense. We need to do the same for Drug Possession today. Along with Homosexuality, Blasphemy, Fornication, Adultery and Pornography. 48
This forum is used by some people that want the power to initiate force, fraud and coercion against people (be the "higher authority") or seek to enlist government agents ("higher authority") to initiate force, fraud and threat of force against people on their behalf.
If something like this could only possibly happen to people taking this drug, it doesn't sound like a good thing to fool around with.
Well, over the years, I've tried a number of different illegal substances. Of those, I'd rate rate X as far and away the best.
MJ is okay. It is certainly less harmful than booze. I don't think it would be wise to operate heavy equipment while on it, but television is certainly more interesting.
LSD is an open question. I personally like it, but I would never recommend it to anyone else. A bad trip could be very bad. It occupies a unique niche in the drug world.
Cocaine is downright evil. Chewing the leaves may be okay, but snorting the powder is a bad idea. It can and will distroy you.
Meth is also evil. Don't get near it.
Back to Ecstacy...
Assuming it is decent stuff (which is a problem), this is the nicest drug I've ever encountered. It is very beneficial to communicating. It's great for copulation also, but the real value is in breaking down walls and talking openly with a partner.
I know you probably think this is trivial. That can be done in other ways.
You don't know what you're talking about. There is *nothing* on the face of the earth like Ecstasy for facilitaing communication. Try it one time and you'll see what I mean. It is truly amazing.
If the kids of your "friends of friends" had problems (facts not in evidence here), it was not MDMA. Like I said, this is the risk. With street drugs, you never know for sure what you're getting. Everything is cut with something else, and the results aren't always nice.
So, staying away is probably a good idea.
But! MDMA -- if that is what you get -- is remarkable stuff. Once or twice a year, you would never regret it. You might walk bow-legged for a week or two afterwards, but that would be the only negative effect.
False. "The supporters of the Harrison bill [Harrison Narcotic Act of 1914] said little in the Congressional debates (which lasted several days) about the evils of narcotics addiction in the United States. They talked more about the need to implement The Hague Convention of 1912. Even Senator Mann of Mann Act fame, spokesman for the bill in the Senate, talked about international obligations rather than domestic morality." - The Consumers Union Report on Licit and Illicit Drugs
Then surely it will be easy for you to provide evidence.
Also, she said the Stanford study injected Ecstasy, while most human users take the drug orally. Drugs taken orally are less concentrated in the body than drugs that are injected, said Holland.
In short, this pro-WOD "research" is crap. But don't expect the WODdies to admit, or even understand, this fact.
Don't get me wrong-do whatever you want. But there's no disputing the prior evidence of an MDMA-striatal injury connection.
I personally have no interest in using MDMA. But your pro-freedom stance is noted and appreciated.
But there's no disputing the prior evidence of an MDMA-striatal injury connection.
"Objectives: This study was designed to investigate the effects of ecstasy as well as the combined use of ecstasy and amphetamine on the density of nigrostriatal DA neurones.
[...]
Conclusions: These initial observations suggest that thesole use of ecstasy is not related to dopaminergic neuro-toxicity in humans. In contrast, the reported use of amphetamine by regular users of ecstasy seems to be associated with a reduction in nigrostriatal DA neurones."
L. Reneman et al., "Use of amphetamine by recreational users of ecstasy (MDMA) is associated with reduced striatal dopamine transporter densities: a [123I]!-CIT SPECT study preliminary report", Psychopharmacology (2002) 159: 335-340
I myself use no drugs. But if an adult chooses to use the deadly addictive drugs alcohol or tobacco, or any other drug, it's his body and his decision.
The federal level only has 5 classes.
North Carolina defines a Schedule VI Drug under N.C.G.S. § 90-94.
Schedule VI controlled substances.
This schedule includes the controlled substances listed or to be listed by whatever official name, common or usual name, chemical name, or trade name designated. In determining that such substance comes within this schedule, the Commission shall find: no currently accepted medical use in the United States, or a relatively low potential for abuse in terms of risk to public health and potential to produce psychic or physiological dependence liability based upon present medical knowledge, or a need for further and continuing study to develop scientific evidence of its pharmacological effects.
The following controlled substances are included in this schedule:
(1) Marijuana.
(2) Tetrahydrocannabinols.
Under North Carolina law this becomes more of an issue in sentencing and punishment Depending on how much you possess.
If You possess less than 1/2 oz you are guilty of a class 3 misdemeanor. More than 1/2 but less than 1 and 1/2 oz is a Class 1 misdemeanor. More than 1 and 1/2 oz is a class I Felony.
Any amount of Cocaine or Heroin is a felony by comparison.
The Federal Government puts Marijuana in Schedule I. They also put things like marijuana, THC LSD, mescaline, peyote and heroin in schedule I.
How much dealing have you had with heroin junkies? There is probably not a more addictive drug than heroin.
Heroin actually makes the body so dependent on the drug that it gets sick without it. The Heroin junkie will do ANYTHING to get more of it and stop the sickness. It takes a LONG Time to get off heroin and few people can ever kick the habit for good.
Have you ever seen a person first hand suffering from Heroin withdraw? They will vomit until they cannot vomit anymore, then they will double over on the floor and experience cramps. Most describe the cramps as the worse pain they have ever felt.
Heroin is probably one of the most dangerous drugs out there. The statement you made is laughable.
As for LSD, (d-lysergic acid diethylamide), it is considered the most powerful known hallucinogen. LSD Is not physically addictive, but it is Psychologically addictive, most LSD users build a tolerance to the drug and need more and more of it to get the same high.
The same flawed argument is used in the abortion debate.
Many will say, I personally would not have an abortion, but if another woman want's to it is her body. This argument is flawed for a number of reasons, but most important it is not the woman's body, it is a baby she is murdering.
I find it no suprise that most libertarians are pro-aborts.
The same argument could be used for anything.
What If I said to you, "I personally wouldn't own a black man, but if someone else wanted to, it is their choice."
It doesn't work because the black man would be deprived of his freedom.
The casuality of illicit drug use is the safety and morality of society.
Want to hear what our founders thought about this???
"Statesmen, my dear Sir, may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is Religion and Morality alone, which can establish the Principles upon which Freedom can securely stand. John Adams
"The only foundation of a free Constitution is pure Virtue, and if this cannot be inspired into our People in a greater Measure, than they have it now, they may change their Rulers and the forms of Government, but they will not obtain a lasting liberty." John Adams
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams
"Religion and virtue are the only foundations, not only of all free government, but of social felicity under all governments and in all the combinations of human society." John Adams
"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this; it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity. John Quincy Adams
"From the day of the Declaration...they (the American people) were bound by the laws of God, which they all, and by the laws of The Gospel, which they nearly all, acknowledge as the rules of their conduct." John Quincy Adams
"Man, considered as a creature, must necessarily be subject to the laws of his Creator, for he is entirely a dependent being....And, consequently, as man depends absolutely upon his Maker for everything, it is necessary that he should in all points conform to his Maker's will...this will of his Maker is called the law of nature. These laws laid down by God are the eternal immutable laws of good and evil...This law of nature dictated by God himself, is of course superior in obligation to any other. It is binding over all the globe, in all countries, and at all times: no human laws are of any validity if contrary to this... Sir William Blackstone
"Blasphemy against the Almighty is denying his being or providence, or uttering contumelious reproaches on our Savior Christ. It is punished, at common law by fine and imprisonment, for Christianity is part of the laws of the land. Sir William Blackstone
"The preservation of Christianity as a national religion is abstracted from its own intrinsic truth, of the utmost consequence to the civil state, which a single instance will sufficiently demonstrate. Sir William Blackstone
"I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man. Alexander Hamilton
"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here." Patrick Henry
"The Bible is worth all other books which have ever been printed." Patrick Henry
"Bad men cannot make good citizens. A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience are incompatible with freedom." Patrick Henry
"It is when people forget God that tyrants forge their chains." Patrick Henry
"Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers. John Jay
"Religion is the only solid basis of good morals; therefore education should teach the precepts of religion, and the duties of man toward God." Gouverneur Morris
"If thou wouldst rule well, thou must rule for God, and to do that, thou must be ruled by him....Those who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants." William Penn
"By removing the Bible from schools we would be wasting so much time and money in punishing criminals and so little pains to prevent crime. Take the Bible out of our schools and there would be an explosion in crime." Benjamin Rush
As we can see here, our founders did not endorse or embrace libertarianism in the least. Our Founders understood that laws must reflect Almighty God's Moral Precepts.
Libertarianism is a religion of self indulgence and hedonism. It teaches that the person can decide for himself what is right and wrong, and has to answer to no one.
It is humanistic to the core.
Libertarians believe abortion, homosexuality, fornication, adultery, sexual perversions, prostitution, drug use, gambling ect... are all things that should be practiced and enjoyed.
They hate and despise authority, and they blame government and laws for their problems.
GOD MAKES LAW. MAN's LAW MUST REFLECT GOD'S LAW.
Our Founders understood this principle. They had laws that protected the moral fabric of our nation, because they understood that a good nation must have morality. They took it for granted that the people were moral, that is why the constitution worked.
The hippies of the 1960's were not moral, their immoral/ammoral lifestyle is incompatable with the constitution.
If our founders had only known what we have become, they would have drafted a much different constitution.
Way back in 1815, The Pennsylvania Supreme Court decided an important case, here are excerpts from that case: It reflects the case law of the day, and the attitude on which our nation was founded.)
This court is...invested with power to punish not only open violations of decency and morality, but also whatever secretly tends to undermine the principles of society... Whatever tends to the destruction of morality, in general, may be punishable criminally. Crimes are public offenses, not because they are perpetrated publically, but because their effect is to injure the public. Buglary, though done in secret, is a public offense; and secretly destroying fences is indictable.
Hence it follows, that an offense may be punishable, if in it's nature and by it's example, it tends to the corruption or morals; although it not be committed in public.
Although every immoral act, such as lying, ect... is not indictable, yet where the offense charged is destructive of morality in general...it is punishable at common law. The destruction of morality renders the power of government invalid...
No man is permitted to corrupt the morals of the people, secret poision cannot be thus desseminated.
Remember:
"It is when people forget God that tyrants forge their chains."
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