H-1B issues going to court, U.S. WORKERS SAY THEY ARE FEELING BETRAYED

Mercury News ^ | 9/26/02 | Jennifer Bjorhus

[Drango]

For years U.S. engineers have grumbled that foreign engineers on work visas were getting their jobs. Now, for the first time, U.S. workers are filing formal complaints with the government and in court, charging that foreign guest workers are replacing them during the downturn.

[posterkid]

Great post, thanks. The H1-B scam is one of the most horrible things to happen to the tech industry. The comments about how the H1-Bs will work 15hour days because they have to are right on. My previous employer used about 30% H1-Bs in the IT group, and the company before probably had 40-50% in development.

There is no worker shortage. There is a shortage of workers willing to do 60 hour weeks for $40k/yr. Deport them all.

Debunking The Myth Of A Desperate Software Labor Shortage is a very interesting piece, if extremely long.

[harpseal]

Clearly the H1B visa program is a program designed to make Ameican Citizens unemployed while employing foreign nationals for a much lower salary.

[3AngelaD]

Yes, I guess it is really too much to expect Congress to put the interests of American citizens ahead of the interests of foreign nationals, and those who want to employ them cheaply. The word here is betrayal. Nobody minded very much when Congress made it possible for legal and illegal immigrants to take American jobs and displace American citizens, as long as those jobs were entry-level, unskilled positions occupied by those already at the bottom of the employment ladder, and specifically jobs previously held by blacks and native-born Hispanics. But now that it is clear Congress is doling out the same treatment to middle class, highly educated workers, people are surprised, surprised, this could happen.

[taxed2death]

To those who would promote globalization, beware of this double edged sword. I'm predicting in the near future, just as our manufacturing jobs have been sent overseas to the workers willing to work for pennies, workers from overseas will be coming hear to get middle management positions and be willing to work 70-80 hr. weeks for a $30,000.00 salary.
It's going to be strange seeing all these white collar workers standing in line for the gub-mint cheese handouts. But hey......it's good for the bottom line, right? ow long before someone undercuts YOUR job?

[banjo joe]

Something that "management" ignores is the amount of rework that must be done when H1-Bs do the coding; not because they're not good, but b/c of the language barrier. But, if you'll work 70 hours (40 to code, 30 to fix)a week why not?

First it was manufacting, now it's IT and engineering.

[thisiskubrick]

Indeed, this is the flip side of free trade. "free trade" means cheap labor gets to be imported as well.

But, this is great for the corporations, so full steam ahead! (Just kidding)

On the other hand, what is the quality of these H1B workers? A libertarian would argue that US citizens would beat them due to better schooling, etc. (oh, wait, libertarians don't want public universities).

But I think the whole H1B flap is just something that distracts angry, unemployed workers from where the blame really lies in the tech downturn: Millions upon millions of dollars down the drain on harebrained dot-com insanity.

Blame immigrants? Blame the CEOs that swindled their workers and investors out of some serious cash.

Nobody seems to want to remember what "everyone" thought in 1999: The sky was the limit on the internet, "year 2000" companies were a good investment, etc. etc.

I think the tech industry has largely made their own bed. They can lie in it.

[RonF]

An Indian engineer working for a company on an H1-B visa is a high-tech version of a Mexican dishwasher in a Chicago restaurant without a green card. Work long, work hard, keep your mouth shut or you're back home. No wonder the companies love them. One more way that the Bush administration will jump up and suck the corporate teat when they think no one's looking.

[posterkid]

In many cases, unfortunately, management doesn't see or understand that, though. Who fixes that code? Either an H1-B, or some other coder.

Most coders I've worked with are not really inclined to go tell management when they constantly fix others' code. More just complain under their breath.

[Drango]

but b/c of the language barrier

There is nothing funnier than setting in a meeting listening to a Polish engineer discussing an item with a Chinese/Indian/Filipino/Russian/Turkish softwear team.

I don't think anyone can understand a single thing said...

[Scruffy]

Glad to hear this. The H1-B's program has been abused for years. Even during the hayday of .COMs the program was abused. Companies find Indian's and other foreign nationals as cheap, cheap labor.

[hedgetrimmer]

Clearly the H1B visa program is a program designed to make Ameican Citizens unemployed while employing foreign nationals for a much lower salary.

Just one more thing to be grateful for, courtesy of the Clinton years. The tech industry really got their money's worth from the most corrupt administration, and corrupt Congress ever.

[EdReform]

H-1B Hall of Shame

[lavaroise]

Revoking H1B would also require making illegal the dumping loophole allowing foreign nations to lower the prices of the their labors!

[dfwgator]

The problem is great, so we get rid of the H1-Bs then what? The companies will simply contract out to other offshore companies, face it, the jobs aren't coming back.

[William Terrell]

I'm predicting in the near future, just as our manufacturing jobs have been sent overseas to the workers willing to work for pennies, workers from overseas will be coming hear to get middle management positions and be willing to work 70-80 hr. weeks for a $30,000.00 salary.

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Incidently, I've flat left the software deveolpment industry after 30 years. . .

[dfwgator]

It makes more sense to outsource than to hire H1-B's. Time marches on, all good things must come to an end. Nobody weeped for the Buggy Whip makers, or the slide rule makers, and noone will weep for the programmers either.

[tracer]

Your post reminds me of the days when I worked for a large Japanese company. The Japanese managers where very nice, but many of my gaijin associates were offended by the practice of business meetings in English being punctuated by pauses for sidebar discussions in Japanese.

I started the practice of holding simultaneous sidebar meetings in Pig-Latin. One junior executive always could be seen feverishly thumbing through his Japanese-English dictionary to try to gain at least a small idea of what we were saying. He apparently never figured out that we were discussing everything from baseball to politics to NYC area traffic.

I shared many a laugh with a few senior Japanese executives about this. And, no, I was not fired or even hassled. Au contrair'......

[posterkid]

Good post. I am rather fond (in a laugh-or-cry kind of way) of the way that here in the US we import H1-B workers by the thousands, make them slaves to their sponsors, overwork them, and usually end up losing them.

That's what we do with the people who actually know something and want to contribute to the country (even indirectly, by working to make money for their families).

But the ones who sneak over the border from Mexico... let's give em welfare! Screw the people with talent who actually want to do something USEFUL here...