Geez everybody does it.......
Posted on 09/24/2002 11:51:53 AM PDT by Protagoras
DEBKAfiles readers were not taken aback by the Israeli Shin Beit's (Security Service) disclosure on September 23 that it had custody of a three-man Palestinian cell from Ramallah who trained in Iraq with Iraqi instructors in the execution of strikes against Israeli targets - in the company of al Qaeda terrorists.
Their admissions - which link Yasser Arafat, Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden in a collaborative relationship for the pursuit of terror were included in a sensitive file carried to Washington this week by a team of Israeli officers.
DEBKAfile pointed attention to this association right after the Passover massacre at the Park Hotel in Netanya on March 27, 2002. Three months earlier, in January 2002, we highlighted secret rendezvous taking place regularly in Amman between two childhood friends: Col. Tawfiq Tirawi, chief of West Bank General Intelligence and one of Arafat?s most trusted aides, and another Palestinian terror executive, Mohammad Abbas, known as Abu al-Abbas, head of the Baghdad-based Arab Liberation Front. The two men were born and went to school in the village of Tirah north of Ramallah. From 1991, they have been meeting regularly in Amman, which is halfway between the West Bank and Baghdad, to trade directives, intelligence, funds and messages between their respective bosses.
Abu al-Abbas is better known for hijacking the Achille Lauro pleasure craft in 985 in an operation ordered by Arafat and throwing the American Jewish Leon Klinghoffer overboard in his wheelchair.
Tirawi's importance to Arafat is such that is willing to see his government compound in ruins rather than hand his senior aide over with his pockets full of incriminating secrets.
According to DEBKAfiles military and counter-terror sources, the Israeli officers brought to Washington two further pieces of information:
1. The interrogations of Palestinian and Iraqi terrorists and agents picked up in recent weeks in the West Bank, at the Jordan Bridges crossings from Jordan and in Jordan itself, yielded the discovery that Yasser Arafat's hand was behind the assassination in Baghdad on August 16 of the terror master Abu Nidal, his notorious former partner turned rival, with four of his aides. Indeed, Tirawi and Abu al-Abbas were entrusted with setting up the murder. Arafat asked Saddam Hussein to get rid of Abu Nidal, claiming he was on the point of passing to American parties in the Persian Gulf evidence of the three-way partnership-for-terror forged by Arafat, Saddam and bin Laden. Arafat relayed his request to the Iraqi leader through Ahmed Azzam, Arafat's special envoy to Baghdad, together with Al-Abbas.
Saddam gave his assent at the beginning of August. The plan of operation entailed Abu Nidal's regular contacts in Iraqi intelligence calling on him and, when he opened the door unsuspectingly, standing aside for the Palestinians to burst in and do the deed.
2. The second piece of information relayed to Washington exposes another hidden facet of the working relationship binding Arafat and his PLO with Saddam and al Qaida. That facet surfaced after Italy seized a ship on August 5, carrying a suspected al Qaeda cell of 15 Pakistanis. The ship's smudged name appeared to be Sara. The Pakistanis were detained in Sicily after US naval intelligence deciphered coded messages and gathered evidence on some of the men. One coded note used the expression "united in matrimony", which was similar to a reference intercepted during the first attack on New York's TwinTowers in 1993.
DEBKAfiles counter-terror sources reveal exclusively one of the most telling discoveries of the Italian investigation: The Sara was owned by the same shipper as the Karine-A, the freighter captured by Israel last January with 50 tonnes of arms bound for the Palestinian Authority. Both vessels were also purchased by the same Palestinian-Iraqi company; the Palestinians negotiated the purchase with money put up by Iraq. Both ships flew the Tongan flag of convenience.
Whereas the Karine-A carried a cargo of contraband weapons provided by Iran, the Sara carried a suspected al Qaeda terrorist cell.
Arafat may protest he is innocent of terrorist activities and make a show of demanding a halt to terror. However, ample evidence continues to pile up demonstrating his hand in violence not only against Israel, but also in al Qaeda?s global terror campaign and Iraq's machinations against the United States.
This came from an Israeli organization called Gamla. Yesterday, Condi Rice began to put forward the case that Al-Qaeda is in Iraq as did Donald Rumsfeld. In his UN speech, President Bush said that Iraq has not stopped its association with terror as pursuant one of the 16 resolutions that Iraq is ignoring.
In 1993, the NYPD and the NY District Attorneys office believed that Iraq was involved in the 1st WTC bombing. Israeli intelligence, Saudi intelligence, Kuwaiti intelligence believed that Iraq was responsible for two bombings in Saudi Arabia, the latter one be Khobar Towers. Al-Qaeda took credit for those, along with the USS Cole and the 2 embassies in Africa.
If you watch the timing of the these bombings you will see that they coincide with UN or US pressure on Iraq for resolution violations. This is not an accident or a coincidence.
I believe you are both right and wrong when you said that the President has not raised Iraq's sponsorship of terrorists attacks against the US... The evidence has been there throughout the 1990's. The President hasn't made the terror link the major focal point, which I think is a mistake, but he has made the case. It has always been the 2nd or 3rd point in a litnany of reasons on why we should go after Saddam. I would make it my first. But it is this association with terror, both with Al Qaeda and with the PA that has caused the fear for weapons of mass destruction.
State sponsored terrorism is real. Iraq is up to the neck in it.
Yes it is...
We will have to disagree about Iraq. But, I think they are as guilty as all get out.
And about the post about the Russian paratroopers from GAMLA, that must have been before I started getting their little updates... My answer to your "unsubstantiated comments" is oh, well... I've heard and read things just as wrong on CNN, FOX, and the major networks, and even here on Free Republic... So, I find it wise to believe 1/2 of the things I read 1/2 of the time.
Have you read Dr. Laurie Mylroie's book on A Study of Revenge... you might want to check it out... it is interesting reading.
Yes, I do. The Administration's citing of Iraq training of al Queda terrorists has not been corroberated by any open sources that I have read.
So, because there are no "open sources" you do not accept the NSA's statements? Do you believe that she is lying? Or are you merely saying that you are reserving judgement until her statements are supported by "open sources"? If the latter, I still think it would be consistent for you to back off your accusations that there is no Iraq-terrorism link and put yourself back in the "undecided" column.
The Islamic Republic of Iran, not secularist Iraq, is the country that sponsored and continues to shield, arm, and train 9-11 suicide bombers and Iran is who the US should be bombing and invading not Iraq.
I believe that the Adminstration has every intention of taking on Iran. Thus their inclusion in the "Axis of Evil." So it doesn't seem to me that you disagree with the Administration regarding the overall goal regarding Iran, only the timing and the structure of the war strategy against them. Do you acknowledge that it is possible that the Administration plan vis-a-vis Iran is to isolate them (in part by removing Saddam from power) and covertly foment the ongoing internal dissent that has manifested in student uprisings?
“There clearly are contacts between al-Qaida and Iraq that can be documented; there clearly is testimony that some of the contacts have been important contacts and that there’s a relationship here,” Rice said.
She said much of the information was coming from al-Qaida operatives captured since the Sept. 11 terrorist hijackings. This included several senior leaders whom the U.S. alleges organized terrorist attacks.
“We clearly know that there were in the past and have been contacts between senior Iraqi officials and members of al-Qaida going back for actually quite a long time,” Rice said.
“We know too that several of the (al-Qaida) detainees, in particular some high-ranking detainees, have said that Iraq provided some training to al-Qaida in chemical weapons development.”
I don't have the full transcript, so I'm not sure who the "we" is that she's referring to. I assume she means the Administration security staff.
Do you believe her? Yes, no, or undecided?
I say "yes." I can respect "undecided." But I don't see how anyone not unthinkingly opposed to the Administration can say "no."
This fact is corroberated by Newsmax.com in a a 9/11/02 article.
Then, when talking about Condi Rice, this:
I find her credibility in doubt.
You are a laugh a minute, kid.
Notice Our Tax Dollars at work this morning? ..... But, "Geez everybody does it....
Oh, certainly! Far better than that Condi Rice. She'll just twist and distort the facts, if she even knows them. (This just keeps getting better and better, doesn't it?)
We are both stymied by the same lack of information. So, it comes down to an issue of trust. There are political, editorial, and intelligence people either we believe or we don't. There is no argument that I can put forward to change your mind if one doesn't believe or agree with the source that we use to base and form our opinions.
I have a hard time with the generality of "well what about China, or what about this..." These kind of arguments remind of me of children who are in trouble and instead of addressing that issue, they say, "well Mikey did... or Sarah did..."
That doesn't mean that I am letting China, North Korea, etc. off the hook, but the argument isn't about them. The argument is about Islamic militants. I believe that Iraq sponsors, forments, provides political cover for the terror we have watched during the last 12 years. Iraq is not in a box.
Saddam Hussein is being given the opportunity to stand-down and disarm and to stop the export of terror against Israel and the US. He is not. It is the same song and dance we have seen. He doesn't have to be invaded. He can stand down. So far, he is choosing not to. This country can't afford to allow him to continue.
Can Saddam destroy us as it stands. No! But, how many 9/11's are you willing to put up with why he remains in his box and continues to send Al Qaeda, Islamic Jihad, Hamas to do his bidding. For me, one was enough.
Iraq is the immediate threat... Saddam poses the most serious threat. Arguments about China, etc. are distractions against the task ahead.
I love questions that say "well, there are 60 dictators, should we invade them as well." As if, suddenly, those who want to bring down Saddam want to go out and invade everyone we see. That argument sucks... and it is brought up because it is very hard to defend. Now, I have to defend that and the issue isn't about 60 dicators, but the one who seems to have his hand in every major terror incident over the last 12 years... and before that too.
As for the rest of your last paragraph... I agree. Appeasement is weakness and it never gets you anywhere. But, do we fight all fronts at one time... or prioritize the threats.
We have different priorties. Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and the PA (don't forget that little rat nest of terror). But not all by invasion. If the news out of Iran is true, and Iran is teetering, then maybe we push. Syria will hardly stand on its own... but this is pure conjecture I realize, because the little Assad is crazy... Saudi Arabia... well, that will be worth a thread all by itself. But the Saudis must not be given a free pass. But since you and I aren't sitting in on the meeting between the President and the Prince, we have no idea what kind of pressure is being applied.
Mostly what we do on Free Republic is an exercise of what if's based on limited information. So, there is no one right or wrong here.
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