Spanking: Discipline or violence

Not so, childhood experts say. Their version: Spare the rod to promote positive, effective discipline and prevent violent behavior by children.

“I really can’t say spanking is ever a good thing to do,” said Sherri Rubeck, who teaches common-sense parenting for Southeast Wyoming Mental Health.

“Spanking is just teaching a child another form of violence,” she said. “Kids are learning that it’s OK to hit. Mom and Dad do it, so it’s OK to hit someone to get what I want.”

Ronn Jeffrey, director of Youth Alternatives, said, “Spanking is something adults do when they can’t think of anything else to do. It’s a form of negative reinforcement. Spanking just proves you’re bigger and stronger.

“It is not usually done out of a great deal of thought about changing a child’s behavior,” he added. “It’s done more out of frustration or anger and has only a temporary effect. With other forms of punishment, you have to think about what you’re doing.”

But single parent Johnny Jones said he believes spanking can be effective in disciplining younger children when used appropriately.

Jones leads a single-parenting group in Cheyenne, in which single and divorced parents meet to help each other cope with parental challenges.

Jones said he thinks it is appropriate to give young children a light slap on the hand or the bottom when they are doing something that could harm them, such as playing with outlets or running into the street.

He also has used a spanking as a backup when two or three attempts at another form of discipline don’t work.

“I don’t have half the problems or concerns (with his children’s behavior) that other parents have who do not now, nor have they ever, spanked their children,” he said. “They have problems at home and school.”

Jones said he does not believe spanking, when used appropriately, contributes to violent behavior in children.

“When I grew up, and before then, spanking was recommended,” he said. “The way children acted then, compared to the behaviors we have now, is completely night and day. We didn’t have the school violence and shootings we do now.

“Alternative forms of discipline don’t always work,” he added. “I believe that contributes to a lot of the problems we have. Look at our society, look at newspapers, what’s happening at school. Talk to a teacher who is about to retire about the differences in behavior (when spanking was used to discipline students) as opposed to students now.”

Laramie County School District 1 Superintendent Dan Stephan said the LCSD1 board revoked corporal punishment, including spanking, in 1984.

“Educationally, that is sound judgment,” he said. “Our board decided clear back then that it was not prudent behavior to use that as punishment. There are other methods to discipline students.

“If we have behavior that is not appropriate by a student, we will work with the parents and the student in regard to what the desired behavior would be … rather than modeling something that is probably less than productive.”

But Dwayne Trembly, who taught math at McCormick Junior High for years before retiring in 1998, agreed with Jones.

When spanking was revoked in the district, “We saw an immediate change with lack of discipline,” he said. “We’ve been struggling ever since.

“Appropriate spanking promotes discipline – with heavy emphasis on appropriate. That is the key word,” he added.

Trembly said what happens after the spanking is more important than the spanking itself.

“When a child needs discipline, it needs to be immediate, then they need a positive build-up afterward. Leave them in a positive state. Never leave them down. If you do that, you lose discipline.”

“I think (spanking) instills a line of respect in moderation – but I can’t stress enough in moderation,” he said. “Everything does not merit a spanking.

“A spanking should be done with an open hand on the behind, not a slap in the face.

“I don’t believe in using foreign objects, such as belts, switches, spoons and so forth. (With those) you do not know how much force you’re delivering. If you can’t do it with your hand because it’s hurting your hand, imagine how it feels to that child.”

If used inappropriately or excessively, spanking could cause children to become introverted out of fear of being struck, Jones said.

“Once they get beyond 10 or 11, that child is pretty much set in their ways,” he said. “They are either going to continue on in their behavior, or they already know the consequences of their behavior.”

As children approach their teenage years, other deterrents, such as taking away television or computer privileges, work better, Jones said.

“My daughter has told me several times that she wished I would spank her as opposed to taking away her telephone,” he said.

Jeffrey said he understands that some parents feel the need to use spanking as a form of punishment.

“I’m not going to condemn every parent who has ever spanked a child,” he said. “A parent who believes in spanking is not a terrible person.

“Was I spanked? Yeah. Were most of us? Probably. But I will tell you it should be the last line of discipline. The hand should be used, and it should be on the bottom. It should never be done with any object.”

Jeffrey referred to last week’s televised videotape of a young woman who put her daughter in a van and began spanking her. The spankings quickly escalated to what appeared to be a brutal beating.

“That is an indication that the person doing the spanking is usually out of control,” he said.

Jeffrey cited other problems with using spanking as a primary disciplinary measure.

“If you use physical ways of controlling your children, what happens when your kid gets bigger than you? If that’s the only method you’ve developed to control their behavior, you’re kind of in bad shape.”

Rubeck said parents need to retrain themselves to use more positive ways to discipline their children. That can be accomplished by taking a parenting class or reading good how-to books on changing children’s behavior.

Some good disciplinary methods include time-out, praising children when they do something good and revoking privileges as a consequence of bad behavior, Rubeck said.

When working with children, parents need to give “kid reasons” as incentive to behave, she added.

“Instead of saying, ‘You need to go to bed on time because Mom’s really tired and needs some rest, find a kid reason,” Rubeck said. “A kid isn’t going to care if Mom is tired. A kid reason would be, ‘If you go to bed early tonight, maybe you can earn a reward for the weekend, such as inviting a friend over.’”

It also is helpful to involve the children in the process when deciding what their punishment should be.

“If you let the child set the consequences, they’ll usually make the punishment worse than that parent would. Maybe that’s an indication that we need to be nicer, if they feel they’re deserving of such terrible punishment.”

You are leaving the house with your 10 and 6 year old sons. The six year old steps outside, closeds the front door, and then absentmindedly, remains standing in front of it. This is Florida, the front doors open out. The 10 year old opens the door and is met with the resistence of his brother on the other side who says "Hey!". He reacts by giving the door a considerable shove, sending his little brother flying. Little brother lands on driveway, knee's first.

The 10 year old is usually a good kid, but he has been having a bad day and is obviously taking it out on the 6 year old.

What do you do?

A. Quietly explain to the 10 year old that intentionally hurting his brother is not acceptable.
B. Remove a privelage (take away computer, TV, etc.)
C. Give him a smack on the rear.

I'm pleased to say that I've had the same experience with my now age 4 1/2 year old son. We took him to restaurants from the beginning (and have also been doing so with our 6 month old daughter). I figured the only way he was going to learn how to behave in a restaurant was to be exposed to one early on. Now, that isn't to say we didn't have to leave the dining room on occasion to get back into proper behavior. However, since he was always exposed to the setting he knows how to behave in the place. We have had several older gentlemen on occasion drop by and compliment our "young man" on how well behaved he is. Makes him as proud of himself as it does us!

STOP THE TAPE! Are these secular experts or Christian experts?

Ask them. Chances are (something like 70% for the man on the street; probably less for so-called "experts"), they'll say they're Christians.

Besides, "spare the rod, spoil the child"... I know I've heard that somewhere before... ;-) :-D

This is a tough subject but hell, I'll give it a try !!

I have two children who are now adults and have families of their own. I spanked (didn't beat) and used discipline such as grounding, taking away tv shows etc. My kids were really well mannered and grew into responsible nice adults. I know they weren't "scarred" by being spanked.My daughter has two children who are really NICE kids, respectful of their elders and everyone comments on how well mannered they are. She has spanked and employed same tecniques she grew up with.

My stepson on the other hand has two children who although I love them dearly, are the type of kids no one wants to be around. They were never disciplined and I often thought the parents were afraid of them. They rule the roost. Over this past weekend they visited and the 7 yr.old boy SCREAMED at his mother,"GET MY PANTS FOR ME, GET MY PANTS, in a totally eerie voice. I said, say please and he glared at me with a smirk on his face. This is what they have gotten for never doing ANYTHING in reference to discipline. Moral of the story is this, spanking doesn't thwart children, but lack of any discipline surely does. I don't even want this kid around. Isn't that a sad state of affairs?

I agree with you.

I spank my 3-year-old only as a last resort, when non-physical punishment is ineffective. An effective spanking can be done with almost no actual physical contact, and certainly without causing much if any pain. It is true there are many people who don't understand the difference between spanking and beating, and my heart goes out to children who have to live with brutal, sadistic adults.
In my daughter's case, the occasional tantrum just cannot be stopped with "reasoning" or "timeouts." I envy those parents who say they have been able to discipline their children without spanking, but I submit they are just plain lucky. Children are different, and they respond differently to the same modes of discipline.
I am a strong believer in establishing in a child a sense of fear and respect of her parents, as well as love. In my daughter's case, she has learned that I mean business when I tell her not to do something and she disobeys, and with time, she has become overall a wonderful well-behaved, polite child (so far). I feared my own father as I grew up, and he rarely spanked me, but I knew when he did, I had really transgressed. I cannot thank him enough now for instilling in me a sense of fear and respect of him as my parent. Many parents don't understand this, but as parents, it is our duty to command the obedience of our children. It can be done in a very loving manner, not despite an occasional spanking, but because we choose to discipline with a spanking when necessary.
When I pick up my daughter at school, and she runs to my arms with a huge smile, it is impossible for me to believe I am somehow warping her mind or inflicting psychological conditioning that it is OK to hit people, except when it is done very gently and carefully, and only when necessary, in the first few years of life.

I remember so well my parents telling us kids over and over as we grew up to have respect for adults and those in authority, be polite and always say sir, mam, please and thank you. We had our mouths washed out with soap if we spoke a language that was foul and rude, we were spanked when all other forms of discipline wouldn't work, we would be sent to bed without dinner if we wouldn't arrive on time at the table.

Even to this day I believe my parents did a wonderful job raising their three children. None of us ever got into drugs, or alcohol, and we're all very happily married for many years to our one and only spouses!

I think that we got our wires crossed.

As a general rule, I don't believe in negotiating behavior issues or obedience issues with children, let alone toddlers.

I do, however, encourage the maximum use of teaching and reteaching so that kids know what is expected, so that they know what their boundaries are, and so that they know that there will be some consequences to misbehavior.

I believe in rewarding good behavior, but not in offering a reward for obedience.

'Go to be nicely and you get a cookie' wouldn't be heard in my household. They are expected to go to bed nicely with or without a cookie. I may surprise them with a cookie, but never bribe them with it.

Do I pay for high grades? You bet. That isn't bribery, it is goal setting and acheivement.

"I have always wondered about that as well! When my son was in the screaming infant/toddler phases I would remove both of us from whatever crowd we were in until he chilled out."

I hear ya! I think that parents need to have reasonable expectations when it comes to outings. You cannot expect to drag toddlers around the mall for 5 hours straight, especially if an afternoon nap is a part of their routine. You can't expect to take a tired toddler out to eat at 8:00 PM on Saturday night and not get eye-rolling looks from the dining couples who hired a sitter for their night out! Always have a stratedgy! Before leaving home, tuck a much loved toy in a bag and don't pull it out untill its needed! When driving, point out interesting things....talk-talk-talk. Kids love to talk and be heard. I used to let mine help me shop in the grocery store: "Whaddya think--yogurt covered raisens or pudding?" One time I saw a mother ignoring her tired, whinging, foot slamming toddler (trailing behind her)..she walked ahead and made like she didn't know him....he was getting what he wanted--the license to be totally obnoxiuous and not be reprimanded for it. Also saw a mother ingnore her tantrum-pitching pre-schooler laying on his back in the shopping buggy, screaming "you bitch--you bitch" between sobs and kicking like a monster. Gee, wonder where he got the nick name for his mother?

I have one of those children that throws temper tantrums.

One of my suggestions to other parents is to go ask the parent if they needs help.

In my case, I know I do usually need help when my daughter throws a tantrum. She has cerebral palsy. She looks normal, but has severe brain damage.

I also have 2 other children. If we're at home, we don't have a problem. My daughter who is throwing the tantrum goes to her room. She may scream for an hour, but she is not hurting anything.

In public, if I'm with all my kids I'm trying to get the other 2 kids, and then take care of the temper tantrum. Sometimes, I just ignore the tantrum until I get the other 2 kids settled.

Sometimes I ignore it, and try to get to the car as fast as possible.

The most embarrassing time was at a restaurant. My daughter wanted a soda, and I said no and she threw a fit. I barely managed to get her outside. She was kicking and screaming so hard that I couldn't move her. I literally straddled her and pinned her arms down. For 20 minutes, she screamed. Finally, she calmed down enough to get to the car. She screamed more, but we were in the car. Finally, she calmed down and got buckled in her seat. She fell asleep on the way home, and was an angel once she got home.

Of course, while she was screaming I had other people saying what a brat she was. Little do they know what she is going through.

I had four kids and took them to restaurants and taught them proper behavior. When you have four small children at one table, silliness can get out of hand quickly. A quick swat on the back of the hand with a chop stick gets their attention quickly, lets them know that they are out of line, and does no harm to the child.

I only had one child, but when she started screaming because she wanted to leave, the very last thing I was going to do was let her have her way. A trip to the ladies room solved that rather quickly. After that, I only had to ask if she needed to visit the ladies room when she started to act up and she'd quit immediately.

As soon as she was old enough to realize that she was getting to go a lot of places that her friends weren't, she quit even thinking about behaving badly.

Obviously you are among those that don't understand the difference between spanking and beating.

You can't even begin to presume to know what I understand, so don't pretend you can...'k? I do not believe in inflicting pain (or shock, or whatever semantic spin you want to employ) on my son to make my point. I have had success without resorting to force. But to follow your logic, I will lack any parenting experience until I have an arbitrary number of children of an arbitrary age. I assure you, my philosophy will not change, and I shall still have a diciplined and polite child.

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