Spanking: Discipline or violence

Wyoming Tribune-Eagle ^ | 23 Sep | Ilene Olson

[biblewonk]

Not so, childhood experts say.

STOP THE TAPE! Are these secular experts or Christian experts?

[Crusher138]

You are leaving the house with your 10 and 6 year old sons. The six year old steps outside, closeds the front door, and then absentmindedly, remains standing in front of it. This is Florida, the front doors open out. The 10 year old opens the door and is met with the resistence of his brother on the other side who says "Hey!". He reacts by giving the door a considerable shove, sending his little brother flying. Little brother lands on driveway, knee's first.

The 10 year old is usually a good kid, but he has been having a bad day and is obviously taking it out on the 6 year old.

What do you do?

A. Quietly explain to the 10 year old that intentionally hurting his brother is not acceptable.
B. Remove a privelage (take away computer, TV, etc.)
C. Give him a smack on the rear.

[TXBubba]

I'm pleased to say that I've had the same experience with my now age 4 1/2 year old son. We took him to restaurants from the beginning (and have also been doing so with our 6 month old daughter). I figured the only way he was going to learn how to behave in a restaurant was to be exposed to one early on. Now, that isn't to say we didn't have to leave the dining room on occasion to get back into proper behavior. However, since he was always exposed to the setting he knows how to behave in the place. We have had several older gentlemen on occasion drop by and compliment our "young man" on how well behaved he is. Makes him as proud of himself as it does us!

[newgeezer]

STOP THE TAPE! Are these secular experts or Christian experts?

Ask them. Chances are (something like 70% for the man on the street; probably less for so-called "experts"), they'll say they're Christians.

Besides, "spare the rod, spoil the child"... I know I've heard that somewhere before... ;-) :-D

[estrogen]

This is a tough subject but hell, I'll give it a try !!

I have two children who are now adults and have families of their own. I spanked (didn't beat) and used discipline such as grounding, taking away tv shows etc. My kids were really well mannered and grew into responsible nice adults. I know they weren't "scarred" by being spanked.My daughter has two children who are really NICE kids, respectful of their elders and everyone comments on how well mannered they are. She has spanked and employed same tecniques she grew up with.

My stepson on the other hand has two children who although I love them dearly, are the type of kids no one wants to be around. They were never disciplined and I often thought the parents were afraid of them. They rule the roost. Over this past weekend they visited and the 7 yr.old boy SCREAMED at his mother,"GET MY PANTS FOR ME, GET MY PANTS, in a totally eerie voice. I said, say please and he glared at me with a smirk on his face. This is what they have gotten for never doing ANYTHING in reference to discipline. Moral of the story is this, spanking doesn't thwart children, but lack of any discipline surely does. I don't even want this kid around. Isn't that a sad state of affairs?

[BuckeyeForever]

I agree with you.

I spank my 3-year-old only as a last resort, when non-physical punishment is ineffective. An effective spanking can be done with almost no actual physical contact, and certainly without causing much if any pain. It is true there are many people who don't understand the difference between spanking and beating, and my heart goes out to children who have to live with brutal, sadistic adults.
In my daughter's case, the occasional tantrum just cannot be stopped with "reasoning" or "timeouts." I envy those parents who say they have been able to discipline their children without spanking, but I submit they are just plain lucky. Children are different, and they respond differently to the same modes of discipline.
I am a strong believer in establishing in a child a sense of fear and respect of her parents, as well as love. In my daughter's case, she has learned that I mean business when I tell her not to do something and she disobeys, and with time, she has become overall a wonderful well-behaved, polite child (so far). I feared my own father as I grew up, and he rarely spanked me, but I knew when he did, I had really transgressed. I cannot thank him enough now for instilling in me a sense of fear and respect of him as my parent. Many parents don't understand this, but as parents, it is our duty to command the obedience of our children. It can be done in a very loving manner, not despite an occasional spanking, but because we choose to discipline with a spanking when necessary.
When I pick up my daughter at school, and she runs to my arms with a huge smile, it is impossible for me to believe I am somehow warping her mind or inflicting psychological conditioning that it is OK to hit people, except when it is done very gently and carefully, and only when necessary, in the first few years of life.

[Crusher138]

Bad typing day...

closeds = closes

knee's = knees

then absentmindedly = then, absentmindedly

Gotta proof these things better...

[spokanite]

I remember so well my parents telling us kids over and over as we grew up to have respect for adults and those in authority, be polite and always say sir, mam, please and thank you. We had our mouths washed out with soap if we spoke a language that was foul and rude, we were spanked when all other forms of discipline wouldn't work, we would be sent to bed without dinner if we wouldn't arrive on time at the table.

Even to this day I believe my parents did a wonderful job raising their three children. None of us ever got into drugs, or alcohol, and we're all very happily married for many years to our one and only spouses!

[Neckbone]

So you actually think it is wrong for a parent to spank his or her kids?

I said that I don't believe in spanking my son. I won't presume to know what is or isn't wrong for others- I lack that authority

[Eagle Eye]

I think that we got our wires crossed.

As a general rule, I don't believe in negotiating behavior issues or obedience issues with children, let alone toddlers.

I do, however, encourage the maximum use of teaching and reteaching so that kids know what is expected, so that they know what their boundaries are, and so that they know that there will be some consequences to misbehavior.

I believe in rewarding good behavior, but not in offering a reward for obedience.

'Go to be nicely and you get a cookie' wouldn't be heard in my household. They are expected to go to bed nicely with or without a cookie. I may surprise them with a cookie, but never bribe them with it.

Do I pay for high grades? You bet. That isn't bribery, it is goal setting and acheivement.

[thedugal]

D: All of the above!

[two23]

"I have always wondered about that as well! When my son was in the screaming infant/toddler phases I would remove both of us from whatever crowd we were in until he chilled out."

I hear ya! I think that parents need to have reasonable expectations when it comes to outings. You cannot expect to drag toddlers around the mall for 5 hours straight, especially if an afternoon nap is a part of their routine. You can't expect to take a tired toddler out to eat at 8:00 PM on Saturday night and not get eye-rolling looks from the dining couples who hired a sitter for their night out! Always have a stratedgy! Before leaving home, tuck a much loved toy in a bag and don't pull it out untill its needed! When driving, point out interesting things....talk-talk-talk. Kids love to talk and be heard. I used to let mine help me shop in the grocery store: "Whaddya think--yogurt covered raisens or pudding?" One time I saw a mother ignoring her tired, whinging, foot slamming toddler (trailing behind her)..she walked ahead and made like she didn't know him....he was getting what he wanted--the license to be totally obnoxiuous and not be reprimanded for it. Also saw a mother ingnore her tantrum-pitching pre-schooler laying on his back in the shopping buggy, screaming "you bitch--you bitch" between sobs and kicking like a monster. Gee, wonder where he got the nick name for his mother?

[luckystarmom]

I have one of those children that throws temper tantrums.

One of my suggestions to other parents is to go ask the parent if they needs help.

In my case, I know I do usually need help when my daughter throws a tantrum. She has cerebral palsy. She looks normal, but has severe brain damage.

I also have 2 other children. If we're at home, we don't have a problem. My daughter who is throwing the tantrum goes to her room. She may scream for an hour, but she is not hurting anything.

In public, if I'm with all my kids I'm trying to get the other 2 kids, and then take care of the temper tantrum. Sometimes, I just ignore the tantrum until I get the other 2 kids settled.

Sometimes I ignore it, and try to get to the car as fast as possible.

The most embarrassing time was at a restaurant. My daughter wanted a soda, and I said no and she threw a fit. I barely managed to get her outside. She was kicking and screaming so hard that I couldn't move her. I literally straddled her and pinned her arms down. For 20 minutes, she screamed. Finally, she calmed down enough to get to the car. She screamed more, but we were in the car. Finally, she calmed down and got buckled in her seat. She fell asleep on the way home, and was an angel once she got home.

Of course, while she was screaming I had other people saying what a brat she was. Little do they know what she is going through.

[ItisaReligionofPeace]

maybe you have to have the mentality of a todler to reason with them?

[biblewonk]

Yeah the same book that says, if you beat your child, he will not die. And, "the father that loves his child disciplines him but the father that hates his child doesn't."

[TXBubba]

You said it all perfectly. That's exactly how my husband and I see the issue.

[Sloth]

...she said. “Kids are learning that it’s OK to hit."

Well, duh... It IS okay to hit under some circumstances. Where did we get this touchy-feely idea that violence is always bad no matter what?

[SCalGal]

I had four kids and took them to restaurants and taught them proper behavior. When you have four small children at one table, silliness can get out of hand quickly. A quick swat on the back of the hand with a chop stick gets their attention quickly, lets them know that they are out of line, and does no harm to the child.

I only had one child, but when she started screaming because she wanted to leave, the very last thing I was going to do was let her have her way. A trip to the ladies room solved that rather quickly. After that, I only had to ask if she needed to visit the ladies room when she started to act up and she'd quit immediately.

As soon as she was old enough to realize that she was getting to go a lot of places that her friends weren't, she quit even thinking about behaving badly.

[TXBubba]

Okay, I'll be contacting you folks if I need any parenting support in the future. We think the same way.

[Neckbone]

Obviously you are among those that don't understand the difference between spanking and beating.

You can't even begin to presume to know what I understand, so don't pretend you can...'k? I do not believe in inflicting pain (or shock, or whatever semantic spin you want to employ) on my son to make my point. I have had success without resorting to force. But to follow your logic, I will lack any parenting experience until I have an arbitrary number of children of an arbitrary age. I assure you, my philosophy will not change, and I shall still have a diciplined and polite child.