Job market collapse has people packing

San Francisco Chronicle ^

[RCW2001]

Jobless and broke, Bryan Clouse sits among the dwindling possessions in his studio in San Francisco's Fillmore District getting ready to leave what he once thought was a computer nerd's promised land.

In a week, the 35-year-old programmer will load up a rented SUV and say goodbye to the city that has been his home for the past nine years. He will go to live with his grandparents in Brooklyn, Mich., a tiny town of brick storefronts and clapboard houses a few hours west of Detroit. There, with no rent to worry about, he will look for work.

[hinckley buzzard]

"The quality of life in the Bay Area has gone."

But I bet it is starting to improve...

[Jack Black]

A day of reckoning will eventually come to SF, as its tax base leaves. There will be a point where the remaining taxpayers will be unable to support the welfare state

I seriously doubt it. The State of Kali will pay the fare, FedGov reimburses the most horrific programs like Section 8 Housing, and does it with dollars that increase in high cost of living areas.

[MarMema]

We have the highest unemployment in the country here in Washington, because of 9-11.

[MarMema]

To hell with a college degree or high tech positions, become a plumber, bricklayer, policeman or fireman, or look for a job in government.

Or an RN, which is exactly where I am heading my kids. Big bucks for a 2 year degree.

[The FRugitive]

Unfortunately I'm not experienced in any of that stuff except for Oracle.

My experience is 6 years client/server application development with Borland Delphi (with SQL Server and Oracle back ends). Delphi is all I've done since college and since there have been so few Delphi developers my salary has been great since I graduated.

Now there are no Delphi jobs and I find myself too specialized. I need to pick up some more mainstream skills as soon as I have the opportunity.

[MarMema]

Outside of Pat Buchanan, who would that be?

LOL, I can't wait to see a reply you get on this one.

[The FRugitive]

Here is my resume BTW:

Objective

Computer programmer or related position developing applications, websites, as well as general computing tasks.

Skill Summary

Flexible and enthusiastic computer programmer with over 6 years experience developing high quality database applications in various environments. Works equally well in a team environment as well as self-directed.

· Borland Delphi
· SQL on a variety of platforms including Oracle and SQL Server
· Object Oriented Technology
· Internet and Web Technologies
· C and Visual Basic
· Windows and Microsoft Office

Experience

Quest Software Cary, NC August 1999-April 2002
Computer Programmer on the TOAD development tool

· Delphi / Oracle
· Developed a visual query builder for Oracle as a feature for TOAD, capable of generating Selects, Inserts, and Delete statements to replace a less functional version. This feature is useful to assist novice users in creating a query or to rapidly model the relationships in a database.
· Developed a reporting module for TOAD that integrated all reports into one interface allowing users more control over their reports than the feature it replaced
· Developed several screens for the TOAD DBA module giving users a graphical means for creating and altering various database objects
· Various maintenance tasks as assigned

Blue Mountain Software Marietta, GA March 1998 - August 1999
Software Developer

· Delphi / SQL Server
· Developed client/server applications for a variety of clients, full life cycle development from written specification and prototype to final product
· Developed an applicant tracking system for Vericon Resources with a Windows interface that allowed our client to rapidly process their work with a web interface to allow Vericon's client's to view the data. In addition several automations were introduced to reduce a vast amount of manual data entry work
· Developed a web based application for Lockheed Martin to assist engineers in tracking and monitoring small fractures in their large cargo transports aircraft

Creditor Resources, Inc. Atlanta, GA March 1997 - March 1998
Client/Server Programmer/Analyst

· Delphi / Oracle
· Developed a Print Server to print Customer Correspondence for a large insurance application processing system that automatically printed the appropriate correspondence in the correct office to be sent to customers
· Developed a file transfer utility to allow clients to transfer files
· Various development and maintenance tasks on several applications

Wachovia Bank Charlotte, NC January 1996 - December 1996
Co-operative Education Employee (Internship)

· Developed several applications in Microsoft Excel using Visual Basic for Applications for a variety of tasks, including printing of advice statements to be sent out for events such as Non Sufficient Funds, Accounts Closed, etc.
· Assisted with various sundry computer questions and problems that occurred

Education

University of North Carolina at Charlotte August 1992 - December 1996
Bachelor of Science in Business Administration with a major in Management Information Systems

[Jack Black]

I've also seen some workers from India that were in fact pretty good at what they did. I definitely wouldn't say that they were superior to American engineers however. The ONLY advantage they have over American workers is that they work for less money, work longer hours without complaining, and can't quit. ,

When I worked at a large Bay Area computer company they went in for the big H1B influx. It was pretty funny. One outspoken engineer, a staunch Dem, called them scabs to their face, told them point blank they were here to lower the prevailing wage, refused to "mentor" them on anything, talked to "60 Minutes" and got them to cover the H1B story and in general was the biggest pain-in-the-ass imaginable on this whole topic. He was way to valuable to fire, and he knew it. Management was very upset with him, but I kept quoting the "employee handbook" back at them in our manager meeting. Pointing out that "open communication" was a "core value" and the company encouraged political activism. As far as I know he still works there.

[Jack Black]

Do you know WebSphere? AIX and Solaris UNIX? OS/390? Are you Java certified by Sun and IBM? Can you debug and profile distributed applications? Do you have experience in VisualAge for Java or WebSphere Studio? Can you write shell scripts for the UNIX korn shell, write, debug and deploy Enterprise Java Beans? Do you know MQSeries? Do you know SOAP, WSDL and UDDI? Do you know mainframe and distributed DB2? Do you know Oracle 8i?

All of them?

[hinckley buzzard]

As of December 2001 the reported unemployment rate for EE's was 2%. Think it has soared since then?

[Jack Black]

No, all I'm saying is that this is pretty much a side effect of capitalism, the foreigners can do the same or better work for less pay, so we are at a disadvantage, the key here is to get a better education and a better work ethic. Complaining to the government is not the answer

Foreigners can do the same work, because they are not paying the same bills. They don't pay SS. They send money home to Mom and Dad who buy them apartments that cost 1/3 of what stuff costs here. Many view it as a temp assignment. I agree that "complaining to the Govt." is not the answer. We need to work this issue ourselves, in our offices. I do!

[nanny]

"THIS POST MAKES ME SICK. I HAVE POSTED AND POSTED HERE ABOUT THE LACK OF DESIRE OF OUR YOUNG TO LEARN. AS A TEACHER, I HAVE ENDURED UNIMAGINEABLE ABUSE WHEN TRYING TO PUSH STUDENTS TO HIGH LEVELS. I HAVE NO SYMPATHY LEFT. SOMETIMES, PEOPLE GET WHAT THEY DESERVE."

Now it seems you took this personal. I was not attacking teachers or any other segment of the education system. It is evident from your post that you are not satisfied with the education situation either. I am sorry if you did take it personally. I consider teachers only a part of the education system.

Now, it is evident that you never taught my children. I spent 23 years trying to push teachers to push my children and got no where. I was told more times than you can imagine that the education of my children was in the hands of the state of TExas. That they could educate my children without my input. My children were told not to 'go home and tell yo' momma and daddy everything that goes on in this school. That I could not start a volunteer program because they didn't want parents int he school nosing around. And on and on.

I am sorry these posts make you sick - but the fact is our children are not being educated for the task at hand. I can't change those facts and no one can argue with them. We might all have different opinions to changing that, but we have to begin by facing the facts and not be defensive or offensive about it.

But, no we are not getting what we deserve nor are we getting the education for which we are paying dearly.

[hinckley buzzard]

Police and firemen often get full retirement after 20 years, also.

[Zack Nguyen]

I met a gentleman not too long ago who is a Christian, and has been active politically in the Republican Party. He recently pulled up stakes and left the Bay Area to escape the rampant liberal insanity. I wonder if California, at least the southern half, is a lost cause.

[nanny]

And shrieking at me will not change the situation either - or the facts.

[blueriver]

so most of the design specs turn out to be wordy pieces of bs totally meant for the management

Not in the places that I have worked. I am use to seeing very good highly technical documents. The audience is always the engineering software group. Management only cares that it was done, they hardly ever actually read it.

[blueriver]

Or an RN, which is exactly where I am heading my kids. Big bucks for a 2 year degree.

Until they start importing nurses. No profession is immune with the exception of doctors, layers, and government officials.

[PFKEY]

Agreed, There are plenty of great jobs out there with Fortune 500 companies.

I'm most familiar with UNIX/AIX, OS/390, MQSeries and DB2.

[no-s]

but if the aspect based languages comes out...

This discussion is way over the head of the average freeper, but if use of tools is an advantage for an american, it doesn't take much (if at all) for it to be an advantage to anyone else. As for all these new-fangled languages, all I can think of them is the more things change, the more they resemble...lisp.

I certainly don't feel very productive lately...I've only billed about 500 hours this year to date. But things are beginning to look up...The actual value I add seems to be increasing. It's still difficult to convince people to take on any risk at all.