Mother to surrender in videotaped beating of girl

Associated Press ^ | September 21, 2002 | Associated Press Staff

[TigersEye]

No, you're hopelessly obsessed with some zealot's vision of government ...and you view every aspect of life through this warped lens. I doubt that you could order soup at a diner without finding some reason to launch into a interminable tirade ....

My wife informs me that I do come across that way. So do you. Much more consistently than I do.

The woman caught in adultery is actually a very poor analogy, perhaps worse than your original 'Barabbas' analogy. The woman in that story...

It is evident that you cannot read. The woman is not what the analogy was about. I explained that. I will now explain it to my cat...he will understand better than you what I mean. You can go back and reread my posts and/or continue in your ignorance.

The story has nothing to say about withholding personal judgment of evil-...

That is the point of the story.

Rather, it is a stern warning against the arbitrary execution of judgment by private means.

No, Christ was exhorting people to look inwardly for evil instead of outwardly. Where did you buy your interpretation? E-bay?

People (usually libertarians attempting to justify personal perversions) read that gross lie into it, but the truth is we are commanded to discern evil and assiduously avoid it--not wink at it in some misguided belief we are being "more tolerant than thou."

You can make all the assumptions you want to about my life and my motivations. It doesn't prove a point about anything other than your lack of ethics. I will most certainly condemn evil in the most wrathful way when I see it. My point from the beginning is that evil was not evident in the video of the womans actions. Just a possibility of it. If you are certain based on that then heave your stone.

The evil I see is people yelling 'crucify her, crucify her' without knowledge of a crime. The evil I see is people calling for judgement to satisfy their hearts without satisfying their minds. I'm sure I expect too much. You fulfilled my prophecy that you would expose yourself as a statist once again. If you think our country is run by the rule of law and the constitution is that law then you are a sheeple or a statist. We know you're not that dumb so...

It is a behavior trait commonly found among many so-called Christian libertarians.

You know nothing about me do you?

As for me, I will stand up for the right of the child to be free from vicious abuse even at the hands of her own mother.

Nothing I have said opposes that or even addresses that aspect of the story. When Christianity has been sufficiently demonized that you won't dare have your little prayer circles in the park with your family don't whine about it. You are calling it forth. An allegation is worth a conviction. Right?

Spare me your comments about conspiracies and tin-foil. If everything were so darn right about our government you wouldn't be on FR.

[agrace]

I see your point and appreciate it. Thanks for the response, have a good weekend. :)

[alnick]

For some reason some of the tapes being shown are cut off. There's a section at the end where the mother balls up her fist and punches the child in the head, hard, several times.

[alnick]

So where is the mother and her daughter? Does anyone know if she has turned herself in as she said she would do?

A few hours ago they were saying that she was going to turn herself in at any moment. Unless she did and I missed it, which is possible, I suspect that the mother had no intention of turning herself in but was just buying time with the story. She has had now all yesterday evening and all day today to travel without having the media asking people to be on the lookout for her.

[TigersEye]

Come to think of it, I believe that is what Jesus Christ did (i.e., intervene) when he came upon a group of men about to stone an adultress. I suppose if he had had a libertarian among his disciples, he might have been advised, "It's none of our business, Master. The light is poor, and from this distance it could be that the men are just trying to scare flies away from the woman with some well-aimed stones. Better that we just get on with our own business and leave it to God to determine the hearts and intentions of these men.

You should read the real Bible not the Marvel Comics version. In the real Bible she was caught. No controversy. The accepted punishment in that time was death by stoning by a crowd. No controversy. The story says she was being stoned. No controversy. If you accept this video as rock solid (pun intended) evidence and think you are Christ, if you think what others have suggested is appropriate ie. having 2nd graders stoner her, then heave away.

Cut the 'libertarian' crap. What you are supporting is anarchy. But earlier you were supporting more government intervention (as you usually do) so what do you really believe? Or is that dependant on the moment?

'Judge not lest ye be judged', remember?"

Exactly what I have been hammering on. Did you actually get a glimmer there?
Hang on to it.

[alnick]

An adult viciously and repeatedly punches a four year old in the head. People are outraged about it. And you not only blow it off as nothing, but act morally superior to those who are outraged by it.

What's the matter with you? Are you so blinded by your ideology that you can't find it in your heart to feel anger toward a person who would commit such a crime against such a defenseless BABY?

[Paul Atreides]

As far as I know, she has not surrendered. Maybe Israel came and got her and dropped her on Arafat's compound. Hopefully, video footage will emerge of her knocking the snot out of him.

[Paul Atreides]

I cannot believe that this is even a topic for argument. It all seems like a discussion on what the definition of "is" is.

[alnick]

You, sir, are an extremist.

[Irene Adler]

"For some reason some of the tapes being shown are cut off. There's a section at the end where the mother balls up her fist and punches the child in the head, hard, several times."

I have seen this latter part of the tape, too, and you're right; it isn't always shown. Sometimes it's cut off.

[alnick]

Care to compare the amount of time spent by your favorite TV media outlet on Sudan in the past year with the time spent on this absolutely insignificant 'story' in the past 24 hours?

Your argument is as ridiculous as that leftist who wrote that stupid article whining because people are still talking about 9/11. She said that anyone who still gives 9/11 a second thought is a hypocrite because there are people on the other side of the world who died in an earthquake and we didn't give them equal time in our grieving.

[alnick]

No, I suggested no such thing. I pointed out how you are too busy howling about a video camera to be concerned that a woman beat a child to to a pulp.

[Irene Adler]

Thank you, dighton. I actually missed the reply you hit the abuse button on (probably just as well). You are obviously a considerate FReeper. Thanks again.

[Irene Adler]

TigersEye: I actually didn't see the reply to me that you are apologizing for. So I didn't hit the abuse button, myself, and I don't know who did (I thought it was dighton, but that was an assumption on my part). We will have to agree to disagree about our interpretations of what appears on the tape. I accept and appreciate your apology.

[alnick]

I have seen this latter part of the tape, too, and you're right; it isn't always shown. Sometimes it's cut off.

It is the most damning part of the tape that I've seen. The mom backs away as if she's finished, then she goes back in and proceeds to punch the living daylights of that little baby.

She has turned herself in, but she didn't have the baby -- either that or the child had already been whisked off to the hospital.

[JCEccles]

I believe you be wise and go back and re-read Curry's posts. It seems to me you've missed his point far more than he has missed yours.

A group of men appear to be about to commit violence on a defenseless woman. A woman appears to be actually committing violence on a defenseless child. In each case is it proper to judge the motives of the persons who only appear to about to commit violence on a defensless soul? Or do you "judge not lest ye be judged"? The confusion vanished when you remember to draw a distinction between judgment and execution of judgment--both of which are simply called "judgment" in the shorthand of the New Testament.

Viewed from that perspective, Jesus Christ definitely judged the motives of the men who appeared to be about to commit violence. He judged them evil. Based on this judgment He intervened and stopped a cold-blooded murder.

You should bear in mind that in Israel under Roman occupation the Jews were forbidden by Roman authority to execute capital punishment for violation of their religious laws. That is why they delivered Jesus to Pilate instead of taking it upon themselves to kill him. When the men took up stones to strike down the woman for adultery, they were acting as vigilantes executing judgment outside the bounds of lawful authority. Jesus Christ never said the state was forbidden to execute judgment. He did not protest his own state execution.

That doesn't mean Roman authority was fundamentally good. It does mean Jesus Christ was not a rabble rouser trying to incite the overthrow of state authority. Not to put too fine a point on it, but Jesus was not a libertarian. That was what Barabbas was all about.

Also bear in mind that Jesus did not condemn the men for judging the woman to be guilty of adultery. He accepted that they were correct in their judgment. Rather, he berated them for seeking to execute private judgment on their own authority and challenged them to look inward and to examine their own hearts before they violently assaulted someone else for sinning.

Here, this mother appears to have unmercifully and unjustly beat an innocent, defensless child. People are outraged and venting their feelings. Despite this outrage, the mother has not been stoned, and has not been deprived of a single day of liberty, or suffered the fine of a single dime. There has been plenty of judgment in the form of epxressed public outrage, which is to be expected. But their has been no execution of judgment that would harm the mother in the least.

I agree with the posters who have said they would intervene. I just don't understand those who would look away and ignore the cries of a child.

[A Vast RightWing Conspirator]

Care to compare the amount of time spent by your favorite TV media outlet on Sudan in the past year with the time spent on this absolutely insignificant 'story' in the past 24 hours?

Your argument is as ridiculous as that leftist who wrote that stupid article whining because people are still talking about 9/11.

Well, it's not exactly an 'argument', is an invitation to face reality. Seriously, in your view, what's more troubling? The situation in Sudan or the situation at that IL Walmart Parking lot?

Let me guess your answer: it's NOT the Sudan. Right?

[Ronaldus Magnus]

I'm sorry I wasn't more specific in my post. I have a slow and intermittent rural internet connection that prohibits me from receiving streaming video (the players always time out shortly after I use up the buffer). With a direct link to the actual video file, however, I am able to first ftp it to an off-site server and then download the whole file to my computer where I am then able to view it.

SlickWillard seems to be the FreeRepublic expert at doing this and I was hoping he would have some suggestions for this one.

[A Vast RightWing Conspirator]

Listen carefully. VERY carefully. First..........are you a parent? Simple question. Second.........do you know the difference between paddling or swatting a behind and what you saw on that video? Third..........seriously asking: Is your eyesight all that it should be? Fourth.........do you ever, ever envision a situation where a toddler needs that kind of out-and-out beating, especially to the head? (including violent hair pulling........oh, you missed that part, too?) Fifth.......... I contend that if you aren't a parent, don't become one. If you see nothing sick and disgustingly, stomach-churningly wrong with what that bitch was doing to that baby in that vehicle, you shouldn't be trusted around children, especially young children.

Answers:

Since you asked, and ONLY because you asked, YES, I AM a very proud parent. Sorry, the pics are some 2 yrs. old. The kids look even better today.

Second - I was never concerned with spanking 'techniques'. As I stated earlier, I am not a licensed parent.

Third - my eyesight is none of your business.

Fourth - it would take A LOT to make the way other parents raise or discipline their children ANY of MY business.

Fifth - since you seem to be getting very personal, just get yourself lost - preferably back to watching your favorite Fox News show. I'm sure they are showing re-runs of America's most important news story since 9/11 - "the beating in Illinois".

[TomB]

I posted a thread on this story a few days ago, when it first broke. I was amazed to see only a couple people defending the mother.

Nice to see all the knuckle-draggers have crawled out from under their rocks to defend this woman's right to privacy at the expense of the little girl.

But to take this to its "logical" conclusion, in one of these threads, a poster actually said that the government had no right to remove a child from her parents even if her life was in imminent danger. He said the role of the government was to prosecute the parents for murder if the child died.

"I used to be disgusted, but now I'm just amused."