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BISHOPS BETRAINING THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
World Net Daily ^ | June 14, 2002 | Mary Jo Anderson

Posted on 09/20/2002 10:12:21 AM PDT by redhead

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To: saradippity
You might be interested to know that in today's mail I received an reply to my letter to Cardinal Castrillon at the Congregation for the Clergy. Just a form letter, to be sure, but personally signed, thanking me for my "concern regarding this difficult situation." Periphrasis in be best Vatican tradition, but message received nevertheless, I like to think. Cardinal Castrillon is influential, conservative, and papabile. We could all do worse than to drop him a friendly note.
101 posted on 09/21/2002 10:04:28 PM PDT by Romulus
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To: BlackElk
All I'm saying is what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Protestants are very quick to point the finger at Catholics. What makes it worse is they can and do act like their own s&!t doesn't stink.

Normally, I have no concern over what teh AOG do or who they are.
102 posted on 09/22/2002 9:54:48 AM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: Polycarp; NYer
This is indeed a very good article. I did not realize that the Holy Father had written the Pastoral letter in 1899 to the American bishops warning them not to try to accomodate the Faith to American culture. From my limited knowledge of pre-1950 America, I do not believe that there were any concrete manifestations of this drift. I really wonder if Leo XIII, the author of this letter and a mystic, did not foresee the confusion which has befallen the Church in America in the latter half of the 20th Century.

My only criticuism of the article would be its failure to acknowledge the receding influence of modernist influences in the Church. All articles which refer to any potential for "hijacking the Keys of Peter" should contain the mandatory qualifier that Christ established His Church on the Rock of Peter and that we have it on His Authority that the Gates of Hell will not break that rock. The idea that a few modernists, whose ranks are dwindling, will succeed in capturing the See of Peter(as if it were some Chicago precinct) should be dismissed as an impossibility. The Church in America has floundered, and the Church in the world is under attack in many quarters, but the See of Peter will not only survive as the visible representative of Christ on earth. It will prevail. As the Holy Father has said, we are even now "crossing the threshhold of hope."

103 posted on 09/22/2002 10:30:53 AM PDT by Brices Crossroads
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To: redhead
This article is right on. I think the modernists, globalists, and libertines are also worried because orthodox, traditional, and conservative forces within the Church have made significant gains in the past several years, while the liberals are dying off with few offspring. I'll bet many of them see the next papal election as a "now or never" proposition in terms of them taking over the reigns of power within the Vatican.

Pray unceasingly for NEVER.
104 posted on 09/22/2002 9:06:22 PM PDT by Antoninus
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To: HangWithMe
All of this to say, the problem with the Catholic Church is and always has been, the shelving of the Bible.

This is a statement made out of ignorance, but I forgive you. For your penance, pick up a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church and start counting the references to sacred scripture. You can stop when you reach 1,000.
105 posted on 09/22/2002 9:09:55 PM PDT by Antoninus
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To: Antoninus
The catechism can reference the bible, but adherants to the canon have to walk the walk.
i loved the catholic church, my Mom remained a catholic and at her funeral I sang the requiem.
i am on a quest, to find the real, the true, and tradition for traditions sake, is not the real and the true to me.
yes, the catholic church has changed, so what does that do to tradition?
i love the Lord with all of my heart. And i hold fellow believers as brothers and sisters.
i am not afraid. i trust the Lord. it's very simple. trust the Lord.
See my post in general interest, Happy Birthday, Yeshua.
Now, this is what makes my heart to leap. What did He mean when He said that He was the living water?
If He is the creator of the feasts in the old covenant, then He knew He was the mystery revealed (of the feasts), who would show Himself, thousands of years later.

INCREDIBLE! Creator, Redeemer.
Please don't let your defense of a way of believing get in the way of your loving the Truth.

106 posted on 09/23/2002 7:37:56 AM PDT by HangWithMe
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To: Desdemona
"...just because the megalomaniac running Los Angeles into the ground got away with it, is no reason to totally despair....

It reads like despair but perhaps it's really a desire to talk turkey; a desire to clarify bluntly where we are and who "we" are.

One of Augustine's requirements for a just war is an honest, rational appraisal of the chances of victory.

The 200 million buck prison-on-a-freeway is not the fruit of only one battle. There is so much collaboration, so much passive acceptance, so much underlying chaos and indignity, so much general nincompoopery involved in this "construction project" that it seems to me--fully mindful of my many, many acts of cowardice in the skirmishes of Catholicism--that we should not waste our energies in trying to bring the dead shell back to life. It smacks of desperate voodooism.

I think we should hit the catacombs. Secularly as well as religiously, by the way....

107 posted on 09/23/2002 9:16:48 AM PDT by LaBelleDameSansMerci
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To: cicero's_son
Well, I've been trying to figure out how to answer your question other than just typing "EVERYTHING!!!" in caps followed by a lot of exclamation points.

Everybody else on the thread has done a pretty good job of posting some terrifying glimpses into the post-Catholic, Catholic Church. But something someone posted on an unrelated thread--(although all these threads are probably related somehow)--provided me with a chance to express why I think the two-hundred-million-dollar Turd on the Freeway is more horrifying in the long run than even the sexual scandal currently vexing the faithful.

A freeper commented that wars are often fought over aesthetics rather than for logical reasons. That really got my antennae twitching, because I, of course, believe that aesthetics are one of the few truly just causes over which to go to war and that the logic of aesthetics is at the very heart of reason.

This is from George Santayana's The Life of Reason:

".....Of all reason's embodiments art is therefore the most splendid and complete. Merely to attain categories by which inner experience may be articulated, or to feign analogies by which a universe may be conceived, would be but a visionary triumph if it remained ineffectual and went with no actual remodelling of the outer word, to render men's dwelling more appropriate and his mind better fed and more largely transmissible. Mind grows self-perpetuating only by its expression in matter. What makes progress possible is that rational action may leave traces in nature, such that nature in consequence furnishes a better basis for the Life of Reason; in other words progress is art bettering the conditions of existence. Until art arises, all achievement is internal to the brain, dies with the individual, and even in him spends itself without recovery, like music heard in a dream. Art, in establishing instruments for human life beyond the human body, and moulding outer things into sympathy with inner values, establishes a ground whence values may continually spring up; the thatch that protects from to-day's rain will last and keep out to-morrow's rain also; the sign that once expresses an idea will serve to recall it in future....."

So, my objection to Mahoney's Prison Monument is a combination of fury over what it signifies is the Am Church hierarchy's true internal vision; and fear over the complacency, collaboration and passivity of the Faithful as this structure slowly and cancerously grew on it's construction site.

I've only seen it by examination of several internet sites (one of them offering three-dimensional views), pictures in magazines and from the testimony of a friend who did happen to have the misfortune of viewing it with his own eyes. This friend is one of the most mild-mannered human beings I have ever met. In the time I have known him I have never heard a curse word pass his lips no matter how hot the discussion or how horrible the subject. I don't think I've ever heard him raise his voice, in fact. So you can imagine how surprised I was to hear his voice choked with rage, nearly inarticulate--except when a few really juicy curses were flowing out--as he described his initial reaction to the Thing.

The Turd is a monument to the values of our present Church Leadership. Which are, of course, hostile to traditional Catholic ideas of transcendence and other-worldliness; even to the cult of the saints--with their transcendent messages; and totally alligned with the materialist view of human nature held by the post-modern Western welfare/police state. Most of the Church heirarchy believes that the "good" of the Catholic Church is as a servant of the State. For example they like to brag that the Church "educates" disadvantaged children--and doesn't oppress them with distasteful Catholic dogma. Bascially, I think most American men who have become priests did it because it seemed like a more dignified form of social work.

But, its resemblance to a prison is the most revealing thing about it. Because, after all, that is the great achievement of modern Western progressivism--to have turned all of society into a prison of one sort of another; prison schools; prison work cubicles; prison legal code (if we pass enough laws then everybody will be an outlaw, whether they have been detected yet or not.)

In its rejection of the traditional playfulness, humanism and transcendence of the Catholic Church of Greco/Roman and European pagan influences, it has embraced the sterile, massive look of that culture of death--Ancient Egypt; mere bigness and solidity is the fundamental architectural comment.

At the dedication Mahoney mentioned that his Turd was specifically meant to convey the image of the survival of the Church through its many travails. But he is either too stupid, or too evil, to realize that the Chuch did not survive by erecting fortresses or prisons. That is how the Leviathin earthly States in history have attempted to survive. Not coincidentally they have all failed, so far.

The aesthetic sensibility that built Chartres Cathedral--and kept rebuiding fire after fire--was maintained for centuries right up to my parent's time. So much so that when I--a post Vatican II baby-- entered Chartres, I instinctively understood the who, what, when where and why of the anonymous, inspired guildsmen who built it. It was all so beautiful and reasonable. It was my culture, you see.

I recognize the enemy in Kosovo as it tears down ancient orthodox monasteries and replaces them with rows of male bottoms. Just as instinctively, I know that Mahoney's Turd is the inspiration of an enemy, alien culture.

We may inflict a few wounds upon the "foreign" foe. but only where the global interests of that foe clash (or, is it really "intersects") with the economic and cutural interests of our leaders.

But we won't raise a finger against our most dangerous enemy--the one among us. Contrary to our mythological image we are the most passive people on the planet. Look how helplessly Americans accepted the destruction of so many of our mid-west and western cities by the architecture of a hostile, alien culture.

108 posted on 09/26/2002 8:21:18 AM PDT by LaBelleDameSansMerci
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