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From my earier post..."Take you're Hanoi Jane Ass Kissing self somewhere..."

I just had a "Whoa! Did I write that?" moment rereading my earlier post. This was way over the line and I sincerely apologize for saying this. I still do not agree with what you have said, but will try and keep remarks like that out of the discussion in the future. END-OF-APOLOGY, Disagreement to follow..

It seems to me that those who have NOT been to war and are in no danger of being sent there are the biggest champions of sending kids off to die.

I don't believe this is true. I still 'hang-out' with friends that are still active duty and there is ALOT of support within the military for attacking Iraq.

WRT Vietnam, nope. It is my personal example of civilian "control" being perverted by unelected bureaucraps

As I said earlier, I wasn't there. BUT, alot of Vietnam vets I've talked with weren't upset about civilians deciding IF to fight, but when politicians began getting involved with telling the military HOW to fight and tying the militarys hands behind it's back. This is a very important distinction.

A grand example of how this works to get people killed unnecessarily is the adventurism of Billy Jeff Klowntoon

A bad apple. Reagan wasn't former military. Bush isn't former military(not counting guard). Roosevelt wasn't former military.

I think we agree on whether Saddam should be deep-sixed(yes), but differ on how and why probably. As for chancellor, for all we know he(she?) could be one of the most decorated soldiers in history. This is the internet. You could be an 18 YO hooker in Belgium for all I know... My point is that it doesn't matter. Deciding on whether to go to war isn't a soldiers prerogative it's a citizens prerogative. Never has been, never should be.

Apology accepted... I had ignored the rhetoric...

I have not said there isn't support in the services for kicking Saddam's nasty ass... I know there is. And that's fine, it should be kicked up well past his shoulders. What I am saying is that it's my experience that the BIGGEST and most strident cheerleaders are those who know it won't be them.

I have no issues with civilian authority directing us where to go and who to kill when we get there. That's how it's set up. My issue is and has been that CinC and the pentagon civilians need strong Congressional oversight because of the issues MacNamara came out with in his book. He KNEW we could not win the war, he knew why this was so, yet he did NOT inform anyone and stop the killing of 58,000-plus of our young men and women, not to mention the ones who lost legs as a friend of mine did, or were otherwise maimed to no purpose. This kind of civilian control we do NOT need... more later.