Posted on 09/11/2002 9:17:10 AM PDT by dommie
Anyhow, though the bomb was small, the 9/11 terrorists DID make 'practice runs', and I suspect that was one.
Wouldn't an extra stop have delayed it a bit? It was stopped yesterday (Sept. 10) by the Coast Guard, so it was on time or nearly so.
Wouldn't an extra stop have delayed it a bit? It was stopped yesterday (Sept. 10) by the Coast Guard, so it was on time or nearly so.
Jiddah is about half way up the Red Sea - about 700 miles from the entrance to the Suez Canal. Canal traffic is in directional convoys, scheduled well in advance. An unscheduled stop in Jiddah would be easy, and could be confirmed easily by pilotage records. Containerships are built for speed and have large engines in order to expedite the movement of goods. The ship's cargo manifest could also show which containers were loaded where, and where on the vessel they are stowed. Where (which port)a container is to be unloaded is a major determining factor on where the container will be loaded on the vessel.
Yes, but I don't want to presuppose any connection here. I suspect that the next port-of-call of the Palermo Senator being Norfolk is irrelevant, that New York was the intended destination.
In any event, here's an article from the March 26, 2002, Virginian-Pilot on this:
Officials not taking desertions lightly
By DENNIS O'BRIEN, The Virginian-Pilot
March 26, 2002
Each year, an unknown number of foreign sailors desert their ships while docked in Hampton Roads and illegally slip into this country.
The desertions are considered so mundane in busy ports that the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service does not keep track of the number of ``ship jumpings'' annually.
But the federal government is taking the disappearance of four Pakistanis from a ship docked in Chesapeake a week ago far more seriously.
The INS reassigned the head of its local field office for a procedural error that allowed the deserters and their shipmates to take shore leave during the port call.
FBI agents boarded the ship and interrogated the remaining crew Wednesday before the tanker Progreso was permitted to enter its next port of call, Savannah, Ga.
Neither the INS nor the FBI will say why they are paying the Pakistani fugitives such attention, or if the public should be alarmed that the men are on the loose.
But most ship desertions do not receive this kind of scrutiny.
The INS does not count desertions, nor typically make an effort to track down deserters, even though local INS offices must produce reports when it happens, said INS spokesman Russ Bergeron.
``I've seen a lot of crew desertions, and unless there's a nationwide manhunt, it's highly unlikely these guys will be caught unless they get in trouble with the law for something else,'' said Edward Barham, vice president of the T. Parker Host ship agency in Norfolk. ``These guys probably took a bus to New York or New Jersey right away and are long gone.''
Barham has represented ships coming into this harbor for 22 years. The firm represented the Progreso on its recent visit, and a T. Parker Host employee alerted INS about the missing Pakistani seamen as soon as the captain told him.
Most times, Barham said, deserters jump ship alone or with a buddy, not in a group as large as in this case.
Ironically, before it came to Hampton Roads, the Progreso was given the highest level of screening the country conducts.
The ship was searched and came into port with armed Coast Guard ``sea marshals'' on the bridge, said Jerry Crooks, chief investigator for the Coast Guard Marine Safety Office Hampton Roads.
The fugitives -- and their 23 shipmates -- were asked detailed questions about their passports, travels and life histories. Their names were run through lists of known and suspected criminals.
The questioning and searching yielded no clues that the men would jump ship shortly after, and a local INS official gave the ship's crewmen visa waivers, a courtesy given foreign sailors that allows them to go ashore on the promise they will return to their ships.
The Coast Guard selected the ship for scrutiny because it had not been in the United States since 1995, it was arriving direct from the Russian Black Sea port of Novorossiyk and because of the makeup of the crew, Crooks said.
The long time away from American shores meant the ship was overdue for a safety inspection. The direct arrival from Russia meant the ship could have stowaways.
The Coast Guard will not say what about the predominantly Pakistani crew attracted attention, other than that nationality was not the determining factor.
The armed Coast Guard boarding party examined the seamen's documents, made sure their passport photos matched their faces, and asked wide-ranging questions to look for inconsistencies.
``We might ask, `Why were you in Yemen during this particular time? Where were you born? Are you married?' '' Crooks said.
``There was absolutely nothing amiss,'' Crooks said.
The INS, which ran the crew's names through several watch-list databases, also found no cause for concern.
Nevertheless, armed Coast Guard marshals remained aboard the ship while it steamed through Hampton Roads, hung a left past the Navy base and then Elizabeth River's Southern Branch to a terminal in Chesapeake. Such marshals are tasked with preventing ships from being hijacked and used as battering rams.
Once in port, a new group of Coast Guardsmen boarded, this time putting the Progreso and crew through a detailed safety inspection.
All of the crew members were accounted for when federal officials left the ship that Saturday afternoon, Crooks said.
A local INS officer gave the crew members ``visa waivers'' that would allow them to go ashore temporarily.
Ahmad Salman, Thulan Qadar, Mohammad Nazir and Adnan Ahmad were reported missing to the INS at 1 a.m. March 18.
Meanwhile, the INS moved quickly to replace William W. Bittner, the head of the Norfolk immigration office. He was reassigned to the Arlington office after the Pakistanis disappeared.
He could not be reached for comment. A spokeswoman for the Arlington office said Bittner was on leave this week.
INS has moved a regional director from the Portland, Maine, office to serve as director of the Norfolk office, according to sources in local federal agencies.
Paul M. Morris was in charge of 12 border crossings in Maine, 14 in Vermont and one in New Hampshire, plus ports along the coast.
He was in the Norfolk INS office Monday, but did not return calls. A spokeswoman for the Portland INS office declined to comment.
Local federal law enforcement officials said most INS offices, including the one in Norfolk, are understaffed, but that the incident over the missing Pakistanis has still left the agency with another black eye.
Attorney General John Ashcroft, whose agency oversees INS, called the incident ``maddening,'' especially on top of a recent blunder in which INS-approved visas for two of the Sept. 11 hijackers were not mailed out until six months after they had flown into the World Trade Center.
According to a 1998 report, there were 35 INS investigators in the Eastern District of Virginia, which includes Northern Virginia, Richmond and Hampton Roads. There were also 72 immigration inspectors, according to the report by the Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse at Syracuse University.
The local office has received additional staff as a result of Sept. 11, sources said.
Staff writer Tim McGlone contributed to this report.
Reach Dennis O'Brien at dobrien@pilotonline.com or 446-2355.
As for the four guys who jumped ship, see #68 above.
Knowing what KIND of emission you detected is important.
Neutrons are required for the chain reaction in nukes, but are not a big part of most other radioactive sources. Hence, detectors capable of distinguishing neutrons vs. other kinds of emissions are being used as a way to differentiate among various potential radioactive sources.
In other words, if you find a neutron emitter, it is more likely to be something really bad than if it is emitting beta or gamma. Various published reports indicate we now have practical detectors capable of detecting neutron emissions, and that they are being used to help search for nukes.
From what has been published, neutron emissions are hard enough to shield that we may have a chance to detect even a shielded nuclear device if we get close enough. I worked around nukes a few decades ago. You would have to be VERY close to detect a shielded nuke back then.
Obviously, gamma is a special case, but these emissions are usually a small fraction of what is emitted by a nuke (at least before it goes off).
They could have been tipped off...
"The reports indicate that they clearly were worried about stow-aways, but then detected the radioactivity. What types of cargo might leave enough radioactive contamination to give off readings that we could detect? There has been talk of having custom inspectors wear devices that can detect nuclear particles, but are these actually in service?"
Good questions that deserve answers...reckon some sort of detection device must be in service for this to be reported.
"How long have we been watching this ship? I haven't heard a single report of this other than on the web."
I heard it on one of the Networks--probably NBC News--last night, but I wasn't in the room and only heard a part of the report. We can probably be pretty safe inspecting only 2% of the vessels if we are willing to profile--racially or otherwise--those ships coming from ports most likely to be accessed by terrorists.
FReegards...MUD
Ship searched for nuclear material
Initial tests found elevated radiation levels in cargo hold
NBC, MSNBC AND NEWS SERVICES
Sept. 12 — U.S. Special Operations forces on Thursday joined members of the Energy Department’s Nuclear Emergency Search Team on board a Liberian-flagged container ship off the coast of New Jersey to search for nuclear material, Pentagon officials told NBC News. The search of the the M/V Palermo Senator was based primarily on intelligence suggesting a ship matching its description could be carrying nuclear material or a nuclear device into the United States, the officials said.
The Coast Guard ordered the ship back to sea, saying it wanted to ascertain if there was ‘a potential risk to public safety and security.’
THE SHIP, WHICH arrived in New York Harbor late Monday, was ordered back to sea on Wednesday as a result of the intelligence and initial tests showing slightly elevated radiation levels in its hold, the officials said.
A Coast Guard boarding team took command of the vessel at 2:30 a.m. and took it 6 to 12 miles offshore, saying it wanted to ascertain if there was “a potential risk to public safety and security.” A Coast Guard cutter was guarding the vessel.
Members of the Energy Department’s NEST team, charged with responding to nuclear emergencies, began to test the ship’s 655 containers later in the day.
The military team joining the hunt on Thursday was bringing specialized equipment capable of looking deep into the stacked containers.
The Pentagon officials, who spoke with NBC News on condition of anonymity, said that the vessel was one of five searched upon arrival based on intelligence indicating that terrorists may be trying to bring nuclear material or a nuclear device into the United States.
After Coast Guard inspectors found unspecified “paperwork problems” and reported hearing some suspicious sounds in some of the vessel’s cargo holds, it was ordered to Port Newark/Elizabeth Marine Terminal in New Jersey for further checks.
There, tests by Energy Department inspectors produced contradictory results, with one showing elevated radiation levels and another indicating normal levels. As a result, the ship was ordered back to sea for a definitive determination on whether any radioactive material was on board.
A U.S. government official, speaking on condition of anonymity, told NBC News that the NEST scientists said the initial readings indicated the presence of both gamma and neutron emissions, which can be an indicator of an improvised nuclear device.
But the official stressed that there is nothing to indicate anything more than background radiation at this point.
The NEST squad was established in 1974 to seek out and dismantle “improvised nuclear devices,” but has been used over the years to investigate suspicious radiological sources.
MSNBC.com’s Mike Brunker, NBC News’ Jim Mikleszewski and Robert Windrem and The Associated Press contributed to this report.
Besides the more suspicious materials, these can also produce significant readings; Phosphate ore, Phosphate based fertilizers, crushed granite stone
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