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To: smoking camels
Where in the Bible is this concept of Purgatory taught?

2 Mac 12:40-45: Below each dead man's robe, they [Jude's men] found items consecrated to idols from Jamnia, forbidden by the Law of the jews. They understood then, why these men had died. All were admired of the Lord's intervention, just judge that takes to light the most secret actions; and they prayed to the Lord so he would forgive totally this sin to their dead companions.... He [ Jude ] did among his soldiers a collect which took two thousand of silver coins. They sent them to Jerusalem, so that there would be offered a sacrifice for the sin. All this they did well inspired by the belief on resurrection. For, if they had not believed that the fallen partners would resurrect, it would have been a futile and stupid thing to pray for them. But they believed firmly in a worthy reward for those who died in God's grace; so this is why their worrying was good and holy. This was the reason for which Jude offered this sacrifice for the dead, so they could be forgiven from their sin.

Matthew 12:32 "And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the {world} to come."

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. (12) Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; (13) Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. (14) If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. (15) If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

166 posted on 09/11/2002 8:01:08 AM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: Conservative til I die
Ummm...Protestants don't have Maccabees, Wisdom and a few others. Luther took them out, so they're not going to find some of the Catholic teachings in their bibles.
169 posted on 09/11/2002 8:02:38 AM PDT by Desdemona
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To: Conservative til I die
Interesting post. This is where you get "purgatory" from? Looks to be a bit of a stretch my friend.

2 Mac?! Try using a book of actual Biblical Cannon.

Matt 12:32 supports purgatory? Hardly. It only states that those who refuse to listen to the Holy Spirit, those who resist the prompting of the Holy spirit, will not be saved. It's an obvious statement, and not one that supports and purgatory.

1 Cor 3 is a chapter discussing the ministers of God and their teaching will be tested. You're stretching here.

If you can come up with one good Biblical verse saying: when we die there is a place called purgatory where we are cleansed before going to having I'll concede the point.

"In every religious system, except that of the New Testament, the doctrine of purgatory after death and prayers for the dead have always found a place. In ancient and modern times, we find that paganism leaves hope after death for sinners, who, at the time of their departure, are unrepentant, and consciously unfit for heaven. For this purpose a "middle state" was invented in which guilt could be removed in the future world by means of purgatorial pains.

In Greece the doctrine of a purgatory was taught by the very chief of the philosophers. Thus Plato, speaking of the future judgment of the dead, holds out the hope of final deliverance for all, but maintains that, of "those who are judged," some must first "proceed to a subterranean place of judgment, where they shall sustain the punishment they have deserved." In pagan Rome, purgatory was also held up before the minds of men.

In Egypt, substantially the same doctrine of purgatory was taught. But once this doctrine of purgatory was admitted into the popular mind, then the door was opened to all manner of priestly extortions. Prayers for the dead can be completely efficacious without the priest as intermediary and no priestly functions can be rendered unless there be special pay for them. Therefore, in every land we find the pagan priesthood "devouring widow's houses," and making merchandise of the tender feelings of sorrowing relatives sensitively alive to the immortal happiness of their be loved dead.

Such was the operation of the doctrine of purgatory and prayers for the dead among avowed and acknowledged pagans, and it differs in no way from the operation of the same doctrine as taught by the Roman Catholic Church. There are the same extortions in both. The doctrine of purgatory is purely pagan, and cannot for a moment stand in the light of Scripture. For those who die in Christ no purgatory is or can be needed; for "the blood of Jesus Christ, God's Son, cleanseth from all sin." If this be true, where can there be the need for any other cleansing? On the other hand, for those who die without personal union with Christ, and consequently unwashed, unjustified, unsaved, there can be no other cleansing; for, while "he that hath the Son hath life, he that hath not the Son hath not life," and never can have it. Search the Scripture through, and it will be found that, in regard to all who "die in their sins." The decree of God is irreversible: "Let him that is unjust be unjust still, and let him that is filthy be filthy still.""

188 posted on 09/11/2002 8:20:20 AM PDT by realpatriot71
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To: Conservative til I die
Matthew 12:32 "And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the {world} to come."

I would like to point out that radical Islamists rail against the Christian God all the time.

I don't know why the Pope said what he did in public...perhaps to show the Muslims that Crusades really ARE over...or perhaps his mind is getting a little fuzzy. I didn't find them appropriate because they were spoken in public. However, that is just my opinion. Maybe I'm wrong and a good thing or two might happen as result of this.

243 posted on 09/11/2002 9:05:36 AM PDT by cake_crumb
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