Pope Asks God to Show Mercy on Sept. 11 Attackers

Reuters via iWon.com ^ | Sept 11, 2002 | Philip Pullella

[Conservative til I die]

I was asking you why the USA recognizes a reigion as a state.

The Catholic CHurch is a Church. The Vatican is a city-state. I figure you can tell the difference.

[smoking camels]

They are the one and the same.

[Conservative til I die]

Really? I'm a Catholic and I don't live in the Vatican or claim Vatican citizenship. So what're you talking about.

[Orual]

I have just as much spiritual authority as the pope. Only I don't have people erroneously praying to me and worshipping me.

I think you're smoking something a bit stronger than Camels. Catholics neither pray to nor worship the Pope. They may pray for him and respect him, but he is not a deity, he's a man who desperately needs every prayer he can get.

[agrace]

Your quotes have nothing to do with Sola Scriptura. Not even close. And bolding random words like "thoroughly" (which was not referring to Scripture) don't impress.

What? I wasn't arguing sola scriptura. Did you read the whole post? I was arguing that we don't NEED to know everything but that scripture gives us everything we need to know about life and death, hence if we believe what the bible says about it, there's no need to worry.

And if "thoroughly furnished" is NOT referring to God's giving us scripture to equip us for life, as the context clearly indicates, please tell me to what it is.

[SoothingDave]

I was asking you why the USA recognizes a relgion as a state.

They don't. They recognize a state as a state. The Lateran treaty of 1923 recognizes the Vatican's independence from the state of Italy. When you go to the Vaitcan you can get your passport stamped. You can go to the Vatican post office and use Vatican stamps, bought with Vatican Euro coins, to mail letters, postmarked from the Vatican.

It has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with who has the final word on what goes down within a piece of territory. Who has sovereignity. And it is not the country of Italy that does, it is the country of the Vatican City.

SD

[Junior]

It is not wrong to pray for God to forgive others -- after all people request lesser things from the Almighty all the time. Whether or not God grants these requests is up to Him.

[cake_crumb]

"Ain't no such thing as one day before the End Of Eternity"

How about The Restaurant at the End of the Universe?!?
I really wanted to stop there for dinner and the show someday...

[cake_crumb]

"It is not wrong to pray for God to forgive others -- after all people request lesser things from the Almighty all the time. Whether or not God grants these requests is up to Him"

This has just degenerated into a general Catholic bashing fest, with a LARGE dose of "My brand of Christianity is better than YOUR brand of Christianity!!"

....Here I am, on other threads and in other areas, a Catholic Jew defending the principles of ALL forms of Christianity against rabid Muslims who are DISSING US AS INFIDELS BECAUSE NONE OF US WORSHIP THEIR GOD....and here I am on THIS thread reading all this petty bickering between the different denominations of the same Christian religion...which also happens to be under attack, just as Judaeism, which WORSHIPS THE SAME GOD AS THE CHRISTIANS is under attack.

PHAUGH!! I'd spit on the floor in disgust, but I'd just have to clean it up.

[Aquinasfan]

You are arrogant and conceited.

And you are funny.

Now answer this one question. I'll try to state it as simply as possible:

By what Biblical authority did Luther remove books from the Bible?

Ans: "Luther can remove any books from the Bible that he wants to." (2 Luther 3:15)

[realpatriot71]

Here's the point I'm getting at. The Bible is the word of God, yes? If purgatory were such a big part of the "after-life" I think God would have spelled things out much better than what you have shown. One thing you can say about God is that He has always "Came with it". He shoots straight and doesn't mince words. You want to hold to a heathen doctrine, fine, but don't try and rationalize it to me by using the Bible out of context. The dead are just that, dead, my friend, and the no amount of human tradition can change that. You want to hold to the tradtions of fallible humans fine, but remember in the end, some people tried to show you what was correct.

[Aquinasfan]

But no matter what you call it, it is still having graven images in your place of worship that you use as symbols of the real entity.

Graven means "sculpted" or "carved." Do you really think that God has something against carved images per se?

But don't take my word for it. Read who commanded the carving of images in the Bible:

Numbers 21:8
The Lord said to Moses, "Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live."

Exodus 25:19
Make one cherub on one end and the second cherub on the other; make the cherubim of one piece with the cover, at the two ends.

Exodus 26:1
Make the tabernacle with ten curtains of finely twisted linen and blue, purple and scarlet yarn, with cherubim worked into them by a skilled craftsman.

[berned]

Dear fellow Christian Sinkspur,

Please forgive my over-the-top post to you in #223. It was wrong and I feel very bad about it.

I should have just said... "Correction, Sinkpur, your position applies mostly to Catholics. Most mainline Protestant denominations do NOT believe in prayers for the dead, etc..."

Anyway, please forgive my previous note. I was wrong to say that you lied, you didn't, just stated the facts ambiguously. Thanks,

(a kinder, gentler) Berned

[Conservative til I die]

If God always "comes with it" directly, like you said, then why didn't he lay out Sola Scriptura clearly? Because my friend, about 1.5 billion Christians don't agree with it. You Sola Scriptura people are in the minority.

[smoking camels]

Dunno. Never had much for the man. Of course I never was a Catholic so I never was taught how HORRIBLE he was. Ever notice that to this day he is reviled by the Catholics?

[smoking camels]

Dunno. Never had much for the man. Of course I never was a Catholic so I never was taught how HORRIBLE he was. Ever notice that to this day he is reviled by the Catholics?

[Junior]

As a cradle Catholic who grew up in the deep South, I have a tendency to take the bashing in stride.

[Aquinasfan]

Am not stumped. Show me a factual lineage to the Pentecost of your organization.

The List of Popes

1. St. Peter (32-67)
2. St. Linus (67-76)
3. St. Anacletus (Cletus) (76-88)
4. St. Clement I (88-97)
5. St. Evaristus (97-105)
6. St. Alexander I (105-115)
7. St. Sixtus I (115-125) -- also called Xystus I
8. St. Telesphorus (125-136)
9. St. Hyginus (136-140)
10. St. Pius I (140-155)
11. St. Anicetus (155-166)
12. St. Soter (166-175)
13. St. Eleutherius (175-189)
14. St. Victor I (189-199)
15. St. Zephyrinus (199-217)
16. St. Callistus I (217-22)
17. St. Urban I (222-30)
18. St. Pontain (230-35)
19. St. Anterus (235-36)
20. St. Fabian (236-50)
21. St. Cornelius (251-53)
22. St. Lucius I (253-54)
23. St. Stephen I (254-257)
24. St. Sixtus II (257-258)
25. St. Dionysius (260-268)
26. St. Felix I (269-274)
27. St. Eutychian (275-283)
28. St. Caius (283-296) -- also called Gaius
29. St. Marcellinus (296-304)
30. St. Marcellus I (308-309)
31. St. Eusebius (309 or 310)
32. St. Miltiades (311-14)
33. St. Sylvester I (314-35)
34. St. Marcus (336)
35. St. Julius I (337-52)
36. Liberius (352-66)
37. St. Damasus I (366-83)
38. St. Siricius (384-99)
39. St. Anastasius I (399-401)
40. St. Innocent I (401-17)
41. St. Zosimus (417-18)
42. St. Boniface I (418-22)
43. St. Celestine I (422-32)
44. St. Sixtus III (432-40)
45. St. Leo I (the Great) (440-61)
46. St. Hilarius (461-68)
47. St. Simplicius (468-83)
48. St. Felix III (II) (483-92)
49. St. Gelasius I (492-96)
50. Anastasius II (496-98)
51. St. Symmachus (498-514)
52. St. Hormisdas (514-23)
53. St. John I (523-26)
54. St. Felix IV (III) (526-30)
br> 55. Boniface II (530-32) 56. John II (533-35)
57. St. Agapetus I (535-36) -- also called Agapitus I
58. St. Silverius (536-37)
59. Vigilius (537-55)
60. Pelagius I (556-61)
61. John III (561-74)
62. Benedict I (575-79)
63. Pelagius II (579-90)
64. St. Gregory I (the Great) (590-604)
65. Sabinian (604-606)
66. Boniface III (607)
67. St. Boniface IV (608-15)
68. St. Deusdedit (Adeodatus I) (615-18)
69. Boniface V (619-25)
70. Honorius I (625-38)
71. Severinus (640)
72. John IV (640-42)
73. Theodore I (642-49)
74. St. Martin I (649-55)
75. St. Eugene I (655-57)
76. St. Vitalian (657-72)
77. Adeodatus (II) (672-76)
78. Donus (676-78)
79. St. Agatho (678-81)
80. St. Leo II (682-83)
81. St. Benedict II (684-85)
82. John V (685-86)
83. Conon (686-87)
84. St. Sergius I (687-701)
85. John VI (701-05)
86. John VII (705-07)
87. Sisinnius (708)
88. Constantine (708-15)
89. St. Gregory II (715-31)
90. St. Gregory III (731-41)
91. St. Zachary (741-52)
92. Stephen II (752)
93. Stephen III (752-57)
94. St. Paul I (757-67)
95. Stephen IV (767-72)
96. Adrian I (772-95)
97. St. Leo III (795-816)
98. Stephen V (816-17)
99. St. Paschal I (817-24)
100. Eugene II (824-27)
101. Valentine (827)
102. Gregory IV (827-44)
103. Sergius II (844-47)
104. St. Leo IV (847-55)
105. Benedict III (855-58)
106. St. Nicholas I (the Great) (858-67)
107. Adrian II (867-72)
108. John VIII (872-82)
109. Marinus I (882-84)
110. St. Adrian III (884-85)
111. Stephen VI (885-91)
112. Formosus (891-96)
113. Boniface VI (896)
114. Stephen VII (896-97)
115. Romanus (897)
116. Theodore II (897)
117. John IX (898-900)
118. Benedict IV (900-03)
119. Leo V (903)
120. Sergius III (904-11)
121. Anastasius III (911-13)
122. Lando (913-14)
123. John X (914-28)
124. Leo VI (928)
125. Stephen VIII (929-31)
126. John XI (931-35)
127. Leo VII (936-39)
128. Stephen IX (939-42)
129. Marinus II (942-46)
130. Agapetus II (946-55)
131. John XII (955-63)
132. Leo VIII (963-64)
133. Benedict V (964)
134. John XIII (965-72)
135. Benedict VI (973-74)
136. Benedict VII (974-83)
137. John XIV (983-84)
138. John XV (985-96)
139. Gregory V (996-99)
140. Sylvester II (999-1003)
141. John XVII (1003)
142. John XVIII (1003-09)
143. Sergius IV (1009-12)
144. Benedict VIII (1012-24)
145. John XIX (1024-32)
146. Benedict IX (1032-45)
147. Sylvester III (1045)
148. Benedict IX (1045)
149. Gregory VI (1045-46)
150. Clement II (1046-47)
151. Benedict IX (1047-48)
152. Damasus II (1048)
153. St. Leo IX (1049-54)
154. Victor II (1055-57)
155. Stephen X (1057-58)
156. Nicholas II (1058-61)
157. Alexander II (1061-73)
158. St. Gregory VII (1073-85)
159. Blessed Victor III (1086-87)
160. Blessed Urban II (1088-99)
161. Paschal II (1099-1118)
162. Gelasius II (1118-19)
163. Callistus II (1119-24)
164. Honorius II (1124-30)
165. Innocent II (1130-43)
166. Celestine II (1143-44)
167. Lucius II (1144-45)
168. Blessed Eugene III (1145-53)
169. Anastasius IV (1153-54)
170. Adrian IV (1154-59)
171. Alexander III (1159-81)
172. Lucius III (1181-85)
173. Urban III (1185-87)
174. Gregory VIII (1187)
175. Clement III (1187-91)
176. Celestine III (1191-98)
177. Innocent III (1198-1216)
178. Honorius III (1216-27)
179. Gregory IX (1227-41)
180. Celestine IV (1241)
181. Innocent IV (1243-54)
182. Alexander IV (1254-61)
183. Urban IV (1261-64)
184. Clement IV (1265-68)
185. Blessed Gregory X (1271-76)
186. Blessed Innocent V (1276)
187. Adrian V (1276)
188. John XXI (1276-77)
189. Nicholas III (1277-80)
190. Martin IV (1281-85)
191. Honorius IV (1285-87)
192. Nicholas IV (1288-92)
193. St. Celestine V (1294)
194. Boniface VIII (1294-1303)
195. Blessed Benedict XI (1303-04)
196. Clement V (1305-14)
197. John XXII (1316-34)
198. Benedict XII (1334-42)
199. Clement VI (1342-52)
200. Innocent VI (1352-62)
201. Blessed Urban V (1362-70)
202. Gregory XI (1370-78)
203. Urban VI (1378-89)
204. Boniface IX (1389-1404)
205. Innocent VII (1406-06)
206. Gregory XII (1406-15)
207. Martin V (1417-31)
208. Eugene IV (1431-47)
209. Nicholas V (1447-55)
210. Callistus III (1455-58)
211. Pius II (1458-64)
212. Paul II (1464-71)
213. Sixtus IV (1471-84)
214. Innocent VIII (1484-92)
215. Alexander VI (1492-1503)
216. Pius III (1503)
217. Julius II (1503-13)
218. Leo X (1513-21)
219. Adrian VI (1522-23)
220. Clement VII (1523-34)
221. Paul III (1534-49)
222. Julius III (1550-55)
223. Marcellus II (1555)
224. Paul IV (1555-59)
225. Pius IV (1559-65)
226. St. Pius V (1566-72)
227. Gregory XIII (1572-85)
228. Sixtus V (1585-90)
229. Urban VII (1590)
230. Gregory XIV (1590-91)
231. Innocent IX (1591)
232. Clement VIII (1592-1605)
233. Leo XI (1605)
234. Paul V (1605-21)
235. Gregory XV (1621-23)
236. Urban VIII (1623-44)
237. Innocent X (1644-55)
238. Alexander VII (1655-67)
239. Clement IX (1667-69)
240. Clement X (1670-76)
241. Blessed Innocent XI (1676-89)
242. Alexander VIII (1689-91)
243. Innocent XII (1691-1700)
244. Clement XI (1700-21)
245. Innocent XIII (1721-24)
246. Benedict XIII (1724-30)
247. Clement XII (1730-40)
248. Benedict XIV (1740-58)
249. Clement XIII (1758-69)
250. Clement XIV (1769-74)
251. Pius VI (1775-99)
252. Pius VII (1800-23)
253. Leo XII (1823-29)
254. Pius VIII (1829-30)
255. Gregory XVI (1831-46)
256. Blessed Pius IX (1846-78)
257. Leo XIII (1878-1903)
258. St. Pius X (1903-14)
259. Benedict XV (1914-22)
260. Pius XI (1922-39)
261. Pius XII (1939-58)
262. Blessed John XXIII (1958-63)
263. Paul VI (1963-78)
264. John Paul I (1978)
265. John Paul II (1978—)

[Aquinasfan]

2 Timothy 3:16-17, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

The "man of God" referred to here is priests. Scripture is God's Word, no doubt about that. But the Bible doesn't tell us what books constitute the canon of Scripture, the Church does. The Bible calls the Church the "pillar and foundation of truth."

Regardless, this passage can't be referring to the New Testament because the New Testament simply didn't exist when this passage was written. The New Testament canon wasn't finally settled until around the year 400.