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Lying is cultural trait of Arabs, says Barak
The Guardian ^ | May 23, 2002 | Brian Whitaker

Posted on 09/08/2002 12:38:13 PM PDT by Lockbox

Palestinians have no compunction about telling lies and see truth as irrelevant, the former Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak has claimed in an interview. "They are products of a culture in which to tell a lie... creates no dissonance," Mr Barak says. "They don't suffer from the problem of telling lies that exists in Judaeo-Christian culture."

"Truth is seen as an irrelevant category," he says."There is only that which serves your purpose and that which doesn't. They see themselves as emissaries of a national movement for whom everything is permissible. There is no such thing as 'the truth'."

Interviewed by the Jewish historian Benny Morris for an article in the latest issue of the New York Review of Books, Mr Barak not only relates his comments about lying to Yasser Arafat in particular, but to Arab society in general.

He says: "The deputy director of the US Federal Bureau of Investigation once told me that there are societies in which lie detectors don't work, societies in which lies do not create cognitive dissonance [on which the tests are based]."

As an example of Mr Arafat's alleged mendacity, Mr Barak cites an incident in October 2000, shortly after the start of the intifada. The Israeli and Palestinian leaders, together with Madeleine Albright, the US secretary of state at the time, were meeting in Paris to discuss a ceasefire.

Mr Arafat had agreed to call a number of his police commanders to implement a truce.

Mr Barak recalls protesting: "'But these are not the people organising the violence. If you are serious, then call Marwan Bargouti and Hussein al-Sheikh [two West Bank Fatah leaders].'

"Arafat looked at me, with an expression of blank innocence, as if I had mentioned the names of two polar bears, and said, 'Who? Who?'

"So I repeated the names, this time with a pronounced, clear Arabic inflection... and Arafat again said, 'Who? Who?'

"At this, some of his aides couldn't stop themselves and burst out laughing. And Arafat, forced to drop the pretence, agreed to call them later."


TOPICS: Culture/Society
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To: OldFriend
We as a country can't be much better. After all, we knew that Clinton lied as he breathed, yet we as a country re-elected him.
21 posted on 09/08/2002 2:22:58 PM PDT by Montfort
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To: Grut
"Gosh! Weren't things like this being said about German Jews seventy years ago?"

Why, yes, and the funny thing is, these people (Arabs) were allied\sympathetic with the folks saying that stuff!!!

Mein Kampf doesn't consistently make the Palestinian best seller lists based on its pleasure reading qualities...
22 posted on 09/08/2002 2:23:42 PM PDT by Axenolith
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To: Lockbox
Many years ago (perhaps 30 or even more) the New York Times magazine section had a cover article dealing with this identical subject (i.e., the arab mind and the truth). I've searched high and low for it, without success -- including mentioning it on this site before. Does anyone here have access to it?
23 posted on 09/08/2002 2:25:24 PM PDT by Salvey
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To: Montfort
Speak for yourself. To equate America with ANY Arab country is beyond the pale of logic.
24 posted on 09/08/2002 2:26:38 PM PDT by OldFriend
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To: evolved_rage
All Arabs are not muslims.
25 posted on 09/08/2002 2:27:16 PM PDT by OldFriend
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To: OldFriend
Yes, but the majority of arabs are Islamic. And there are many non-arab Muslims too. Did the arab cultural trait of "spin" feed Islam or did Islam kill the value of truth when dealing with the infidel to promote agression and conquest?
26 posted on 09/08/2002 2:40:28 PM PDT by evolved_rage
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To: Salvey
I don't know the article that you refer to, but would it have touched on the phenomenon of "Ketman"? This is a whole philosophy of prevarication that allows for lying in almost any circumstance. It was practiced by most Eastern Europeans and Russians during communist times. One affirms solemly and unambiguously the opposite of what one knows to be true. This practice originated in Islamic societies during the middle ages. The best account of it that I know is given by Nobel-prize winner Czeslaw Milosz in his book, Captive Mind. Here's an account of it that I just found on the net:
Milosz gives this practice a name, Ketman, which, he says, is 'To say something is white when it is black, to smile inwardly when one is outwardly solemn, to hate when one manifests love, to know when one pretends not to know, and thus to play one's adversary for a fool (even as he is playing you for one).' (The Captive Mind, Penguin, Harmondsworth, 1985 (1953, p 57.) He derives the name "Ketman" from a practice of deception in Islamic societies described by Gobineau during the last century: 'He who is in possession of truth must not expose his person, his relatives or his reputation to the blindness, the folly, the perversity of those whom it has pleased God to place and maintain in error.' The necessity of this practice derived, Gobineau suggested, from the extreme sanctions applicable under religious fundamentalism to those who strayed from orthodoxy.
Extending the idea to socialist totalitarianism, Milosz describes a number of different varieties of Ketman, including National Ketman, to espouse belief in the centrality of Russian socialism while secretly remaining attached to your own national culture; Ketman of Revolutionary Purity, to practice modes of revolutionary rigour, such as the ruthless elimination of weak human links in the ideological chain, while secretly believing in ordinary human values and sometimes even practising them; aesthetic Ketman, to infiltrate into your novels, poems or paintings hidden humanist symbols and messages while apparently expressing loyal Party social realism; and professional Ketman, to practice Party science or art, which imposed a political line on reality, attending the right conferences and gatherings in order to announce this, while secretly practicing real art and science in the privacy of the laboratory or study.
From this link.

Thanks to Barak for pointing out this ingrained tendency of Muslims to deceive.

27 posted on 09/08/2002 2:46:11 PM PDT by ishmac
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To: Lockbox
"They are products of a culture in which to tell a lie... creates no dissonance,"

This is something I've been pondering for a while. I've never understood how they could tell such transparent lies so bald-facedly. Of the various things I've seen that could be a reason, this is more straight-forward and simpler than most.

28 posted on 09/08/2002 5:18:13 PM PDT by Eala
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To: Lockbox
In a book I read on the formation of the modern middle east (an oxymoron if I ever heard one) a British diplomat who had spent much time among the Arabs opened his speech to Parliment with these words:

"The Arab, that child of the lie....." Says it all.

29 posted on 09/08/2002 5:24:11 PM PDT by HardStarboard
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To: CdMGuy
Their value system is different from ours and they will not hesitate to lie. In fact, it is expected in their society, which is one of the reasons the Arab press essentially can never be believed. (emphasis added)

LOL! You have just described exactly why the American press essentially can never be believed!

(There is a difference, though -- among the American press it's considered poor form to be caught too far out, but that's only because some of the population here will call them on it.)

30 posted on 09/08/2002 5:25:04 PM PDT by Eala
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To: OldFriend
All Arabs are not muslims.

Do you mean "Not all Arabs are Muslims"?

31 posted on 09/08/2002 5:26:53 PM PDT by Eala
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To: Lockbox
Most Arabs believe Jews were behind 9-11. They are liars and delusional.
32 posted on 09/08/2002 5:27:49 PM PDT by scratchgolfer
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To: Lockbox; monkeyshine; ipaq2000; Lent; veronica; Sabramerican; beowolf; Nachum; BenF; angelo; ...
ping
33 posted on 09/08/2002 5:28:18 PM PDT by dennisw
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To: ReadMyMind
It is stated in the Quran that it is permissible to lie to an infidel, you, and get no retribution from Allah. It is not just a cultural thing, but a prerequisite of the religion. To lie to a Non-Islamic is justified.
34 posted on 09/08/2002 5:29:05 PM PDT by Parmy
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To: Dianna
>Well that explains it, Clinton must have been an Arab.

Didn't you know? He was the first Black Muslim President. [-;

35 posted on 09/08/2002 5:29:51 PM PDT by scratchgolfer
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Comment #36 Removed by Moderator

To: ganesha
The list of things HaShem hates the most, in Proverbs, has "a lying tongue" as No. 2...
37 posted on 09/08/2002 5:31:53 PM PDT by 185JHP
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To: vetvetdoug
Read Leon Uris' THE HAJ. What an eye opener, and so on point for what we have seen and are seeing.
38 posted on 09/08/2002 5:34:58 PM PDT by oldtimer
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To: oldtimer
Read Leon Uris' THE HAJ. What an eye opener, and so on point for what we have seen and are seeing.

Did you mention this book about 3 weeks ago? Someone here recommended it and I got it from the library. It's a great book and it is an eye opener as you say. Uris has a great feel for the situation and realism about it. He really peers into the Arab mindset.

39 posted on 09/08/2002 5:43:11 PM PDT by dennisw
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To: Lockbox
The Arabs are either at your throat or at your feet. The only thing they understand is Force. Unfortunate, but true.
40 posted on 09/08/2002 5:48:30 PM PDT by Nonstatist
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