What Bad Thing Has Saddam Done Lately?

Various ^ | 4 September 2002 | Self

[Fred Mertz]

I'll make this short and sweet. I have not seen evidence for a reason to invade Iraq or demand a regime change there.

Okay, Saddam gassed his own people twelve years ago or so. There have been multiple accusations of his development of weapons of mass destruction, including biological and chemical weapons development.

All the TV footage I see of Saddam Hussein is about 10 years old. Show me the evidence.

[Mo1]

Gee Cindy .. nice little list you have there .. You'll have Fred up all night reading .. LOL

[SirAngus]

Well, after reading your post#7(tm), I don't think that is an accurate parallel at all. Germany was much more developed and industrialized(prior to WWII even) than Iraq is now. Germany was a war machine.

I really don't think Saddam is worth our time at the moment.

[Fred Mertz]

Well, there has been no real, solid evidence but some decent posts.

I never saw the movie, Wag the Dog, only bits and pieces. I have a bad feeling that something like that is going on right now.

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

When someone can draw equivalence between the character and patriotism of President Bush and that of Bill Clinton, it would take a bulldozer to knock the chip off their shoulder. When that is an individual's premise, it tells me that it would be difficult if not impossible to reason with them.

It's not a surprise that your points are being (so far) ignored.

[BrooklynGOP]

I don't think that is an accurate parallel at all. Germany was much more developed and industrialized(prior to WWII even) than Iraq is now

? Huh? You missed the point all together. The point was that we didn't live up to our obligations of holding the other party to the agreement. Which directly applies today. As for Saddam, he doesn't need to be industrialized, cause its not how many tanks he can produce that's in question.

[BrooklynGOP]

I never saw the movie, Wag the Dog, only bits and pieces.

All your post subsequent to #7 are Wagging the Dog around the real issue.

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

As for Saddam, he doesn't need to be industrialized, cause its not how many tanks he can produce that's in question.

Exactly right. He doesn't need much.

[Always A Marine]

And if doesn't happen soon, but let's say happens in 2-3 years? Anyway. I'll draw you a parallel. After WW1, Germany wasn't supposed to stockpile weapons. But it did. It wasn't a secret that Hitler was building up his war machine all through 1930's. But euros are appeasers and didn't want to bother with war, so they closed their eyes and gave Czheckoslovakia to him. We got WW2 in return, tens of millions died just because we failed to enforce what was agreed on after WW1 - for germany not to build up its arsenal.

You make a good point, but I don't believe the parallel is absolute. To begin with, I wouldn't tout the Versailles Treaty as the paragon of wisdom and virue. The Allies soon regretted their punitive overkill of the Germans at Versailles. At the insistence (and eventual regret) of the French, the economic terms of the armistice which was forced upon Germany were so punitive as to guarantee the collapse and ultimate radicalization of German society. Hitler rose from the ruins of Versailles, filling a vacuum as all dictators do.

The appeasement of Hitler was not so much the tolerance of his military buildup -- the Allies could have crushed his Wehrmacht at any time prior to his conquest of Poland. Rather, as you correctly point out, it occurred when the Allies tolerated his aggression against Czechoslavakia (and Austria). So, comparatively speaking, Saddam Hussein is engaging in a military buildup, but has not strayed beyond his own borders in the past 12 years.

[Fred Mertz]

That is a wonderful compilation and presentation. You should write Bush's speech....I'm not joking.

You've got me nearly convinced, and I thank you very much for that.

That's what I came here for.

[Benjamin Dover]

Who EVER said Clinton had integrity or loved his country? I seem to recall even his most fervent supporters sheepishly admit he was a good liar and self-serving. You can't possibly equate WJC with GWB. Whom would you rather have baby-sitting your daughter, niece, intern, FBI file, military or nuclear secrets?

[billhilly]

As for Saddam, he doesn't need to be industrialized, cause its not how many tanks he can produce that's in question."

I guess Sir Agnes thinks the hijackers on 9/11 were industrialized, but we can letr her speak for herself.

[BrooklynGOP]

You make a good point, but I don't believe the parallel is absolute. To begin with, I wouldn't tout the Versailles Treaty as the paragon of wisdom and virue. The Allies soon regretted their punitive overkill of the Germans at Versailles.

You are missing the point. The point is that we've failed to hold Germany up to the agreement that was made.

At the insistence (and eventual regret) of the French, the economic terms of the armistice which was forced upon Germany were so punitive as to guarantee the collapse and ultimate radicalization of German society. Hitler rose from the ruins of Versailles, filling a vacuum as all dictators do.

That has nothing to do with this particular point/thread.

The appeasement of Hitler was not so much the tolerance of his military buildup -- the Allies could have crushed his Wehrmacht at any time prior to his conquest of Poland. Rather, as you correctly point out, it occurred when the Allies tolerated his aggression against Czechoslavakia (and Austria). So, comparatively speaking, Saddam Hussein is engaging in a military buildup, but has not strayed beyond his own borders in the past 12 years.

Doesn't matter. If Hitler didn't do what he did with Czcheckoslovakia he would've still started WW2.

[BrooklynGOP]

That's what I came here for.

[Mo1]

Oh I think the questions are being ignored on purpose

[semaj]

All this talk of evidence might cause an observer to assume that we are talking about a court case taking place in a court room, being hashed out between lawyers. This is real life with the stakes being the lives of thousands and possibly millions of American lives if we hesitate to do the right thing. Our enemy has already shown his willingness to strike us with any and all weapons at his disposal. We cannot wait until their armament is on par with ours. Now is the time that we must show our resolve in confronting this evil head on.

Imagine a world in which the West is no longer dominant and in its place an Islamic Hegemony. Is that what the appeasement crowd wants? We don't need court room evidence, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria, etc..., there sponsorship of terrorism against the west is all the evidence we need to do what we must.

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

BRAVO! [Applause.]

[Fred Mertz]

See #179.

[BrooklynGOP]

See #179.

See #7.

[Fred Mertz]

See #179.

[BrooklynGOP]

See #179.

See #7.