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Ecstasy not dangerous, say scientists
The Guardian ^ | Monday September 2, 2002 | Sarah Boseley, health editor

Posted on 09/02/2002 10:16:14 AM PDT by Texaggie79

Three leading psychologists have provoked an outcry by claiming that the dance drug ecstasy may not be dangerous and that some of its ill-effects may be imaginary.

The drug has been blamed for causing deaths and permanent brain damage, but the psychologists are strongly critical of animal and human studies into its effects, claiming that they are misleading and overestimate the harm ecstasy - scientifically known as MDMA - can cause.

Other scientists insisted that those who took ecstasy were undoubtedly risking their health and their life.

Two of the scientists challenging the established view are British and the third is American. Dr Jon Cole is a reader in addictive behaviour and Harry Sumnall is a postdoctoral researcher, both at Liverpool University. Professor Charles Grob is director of the division of child and adolescent psychiatry at the Harbor-UCLA Medical Centre in California.

Writing in the magazine the Psychologist, published by the British Psychological Society, they claim that many of the studies since 1995 have been flawed. They also accuse researchers of bias.

Ecstasy is said to affect cells in the brain which produce serotonin, the chemical known to influence mood. But the changes observed involved the degeneration of nerve fibres, which can be regrown, and not the cell bodies themselves, the psychologists say.

They accuse other scientists of minimising the impact of data suggesting that ecstasy exposure had no long-term effects. Although numerous tests were run on volunteers, only positive results were reported in detail, they say. "This suggests that hypotheses concerning the long-term effects of ecstasy are not being uniformly substantiated and lends support to the idea that ecstasy is not causing long-term effects associated with the loss of serotonin," write the authors.

The article is critical of the way studies involving young users have been conducted. They point out that many psychological problems start in adolescence anyway, ecstasy users invariably took other drugs as well, and some of the symptoms reported mirrored those caused by simply staying awake all night and dancing.

Most of the young people in the studies were volunteers from universities which raised questions about how representative they were of the population, the article says.

Most studies have failed to pinpoint ecstasy as the cause of problems, they say, and the animal studies were flawed and inconclusive.

They suggested that the long-term effects of the drug might be "iatrogenic", which is defined by the New Webster's dictionary as "caused by the mannerisms or treatment of a physician, an imaginary illness of the patient brought about by the physician".

Paul Betts, whose daughter, Leah, died after taking the drug in 1995, called the article "despicable".

Three other ecstasy experts writing in the Psychologist dismissed the notion that symptoms of long-term ecstasy use were all in the mind.

Dr Rodney Croft, a research fellow at the Swinburne University of Technology in Hawthorn, Australia, said: "There is strong evidence that ecstasy does cause impairment... although conclusions drawn from such evidence cannot be infallible, I believe the strength of this evidence makes 'danger' the most reasonable message for the researchers to be broadcasting."

About two million ecstasy tablets are believed to be taken by clubbers in the UK every weekend. Deaths linked to the drug have risen in the past decade. Between 1993 and 1997, there were 72. In 2000, there were 27, although 19 had other drugs in their system.

The exact cause of death cannot always be established, but where it has been, it was often dehydration.


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To: BrooklynGOP
Considering Special K is a tranquilizer. What's it's full name? Ketamine or something?
41 posted on 09/02/2002 11:31:18 AM PDT by Bogey78O
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To: Texaggie79
Great example right here of how you can find scientist to write ANY report based apon who pays for the results! Or might get any results based on the politics or goals of the scientist.
42 posted on 09/02/2002 11:32:07 AM PDT by A CA Guy
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To: The FRugitive
But that doesn't factor in the deaths where only x was found.
43 posted on 09/02/2002 11:33:13 AM PDT by Bogey78O
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To: The FRugitive
There's tons of crap out there that is passed off as ecstasy. Something called PMA and also Special K. Ecstasy can go for as much as $30 a pill, I've heard of up to $50. These others are closer to $5 a pill, so people try to pass it off as ecstasy.

Wow. It's about £2.50 here.

Typicallly ecstasy deaths are caused by these these substances. Raves sometimes have pill testing, so that people know what they are takeing.

Typically, ecstasy deaths are caused by overheating and drinking too much water and there are still more people who die choking on ballpoint pens each year than those who take ecstasy. Congress wants to get rid of drug testing through the RAVE act, probably so they can blame more deaths on ecstasy, not so they can keep people safe.

44 posted on 09/02/2002 11:39:45 AM PDT by JediGirl
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To: Texaggie79
Same argument was advanced about Mary Jane in the '60's, before really long-term users began to show the effects--like about in the '80's.

We shall see.
45 posted on 09/02/2002 12:27:30 PM PDT by ninenot
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To: LindaSOG
We have all abused drugs at one time or another

And just who is "WE?"

I don't even take all the pills given to me in a scrip. Just use what I need.

BTW, I don't judge x users, unless they drive into my car or kill someone on the road.

From what I have read just on this thread, using has its price. That's not judgmental--that's observing the obvious.

46 posted on 09/02/2002 12:31:09 PM PDT by ninenot
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To: LindaSOG
Rocknroll won't cause satanic possession, if taken in moderate amounts. Usually the onset of adulthood cures rocknroll addiction.
47 posted on 09/02/2002 12:33:07 PM PDT by ninenot
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To: The FRugitive
For those of you that are curious, there is no strycnine in LSD. Strycnine is a hallucinogenic alkaloid (forgive my spelling). It is very toxic and can easily be overdosed on. There seems to be a popular urban myth relating it to LSD.

As far as X being safe i can assure you it's not. Ecstacy, much like many other illegal drugs, is not regulated so you never really know what your getting. About 4 years ago, when i used to take this stuff weekly at parties, there were always rumors that the pill's were heroin or speed based. Most of those were just rumors. I read an article in "Mixmag" about a batch of X that went around in New Orleans that was indeed heroin based and it killed a good number of "party-goers".

The biggest issue facing Ecstacy, as well as most other illegal drugs, is the lack of real information regarding its effects and dangers. X is known to cause an increase in body temperature that can lead users to overconsume water, dehydrate, or die from over heating. It also has a nasty habvit of making you feel depressed for days after its use. Ecstacy can be fun to use if you know whats in the pill and your taking it responsibly. The problem is....who do you know that actually used drugs, alcohol, or anything in general responsibly =)


Drunknsage
48 posted on 09/02/2002 12:45:35 PM PDT by drunknsage
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To: Bogey78O
Considering Special K is a tranquilizer. What's it's full name? Ketamine or something?

Yea. Ketamine..

49 posted on 09/02/2002 1:11:51 PM PDT by BrooklynGOP
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To: LindaSOG
You are incorrect about the use of Serzone. You do not need to be on this for life. Serzone is a serotonin uptake inhibitor. This does not have the same effects as Ecstacy.
As coke flushes the brain of serotonin x does the same.
Alcohol is bad but I can drink a brandy or beer and not be drunk. X is not used in the same manner or an I wrong?
50 posted on 09/02/2002 1:44:32 PM PDT by ChiMark
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To: The FRugitive
"A heal of a lot more then 20 people a year. Why the hysterics over ecstasy?"

Thats kinda what I was thinking. If 2 million ecstasy tablets consumed every weekend results in only 27 deaths a year, it sounds to me like ecastasy might be considerably safer than alcohol.

51 posted on 09/02/2002 2:02:46 PM PDT by monday
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To: ninenot
"I don't even take all the pills given to me in a scrip. Just use what I need."

er....you might want to keep that bit of information to yourself. Failure to follow directions for prescription medication is not a sign of intelligence.

52 posted on 09/02/2002 2:14:08 PM PDT by monday
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Comment #53 Removed by Moderator

To: ninenot
It's best you use all the meds given to you in a prescription. If you have an infection or are taking an inhibitor taking "what you need" only cures the symptoms and may result in relapse and possible drug immunnity.
54 posted on 09/02/2002 2:17:56 PM PDT by Bogey78O
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To: monday
Conservative medication IS a sign of intelligence. You'd be surprised how long I have lived despite the MD's.
55 posted on 09/02/2002 2:47:41 PM PDT by ninenot
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To: Bogey78O
Nicotine and caffeine, occasionally mixed with malted alcoholic beverage (plus 5 daughters living at home) keep me from developing anything serious, aside from acerbic and cynical humor.
56 posted on 09/02/2002 2:49:13 PM PDT by ninenot
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To: LibWhacker
Psychology is not a science and psychologists are not scientists.

Grob is an MD with expertise in this area, which ought to qualify him to speak, then.

57 posted on 09/02/2002 2:59:21 PM PDT by general_re
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To: tallhappy
Ecstasy has a very nasty epoxide group on it

It has a methylene dioxide group attached to the benzene portion of the methamphetamine compound. There's no such thing as a methyl epoxide.

58 posted on 09/02/2002 3:36:08 PM PDT by realpatriot71
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To: ovrtaxt
It's a mixture of heroin, LSD and speed.

Errrrr, wrong! No one is EVER going to cut MDMA with heroin - DOESN'T HAPPEN. I've heard this myth perpetuated again and again. I think some ignorant cop at a DARE class said something like this and it took off. Also, no one is going to slip you acid either. Both these drugs are worth too much street value to be cutting MDMA with it. You can and will get caffiene, meth, and or DXM in many fake pills. Buying at a rave is "buyer be ware," but as a rule your local X dealer is selling nothing but pure MDMA. It's hard to get return cutomers if you're selling junk. Simple econmonics really. Thank you Drug War.

59 posted on 09/02/2002 3:40:44 PM PDT by realpatriot71
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To: The FRugitive
Why the hysterics over ecstasy?

Because people are having UNapproved fun - big brother and the puritans cannot handle this, nor can they admit when they're wrong.

60 posted on 09/02/2002 3:42:36 PM PDT by realpatriot71
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