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Germany Refuses U.S. Evidence Against Sept. 11 Suspect Without Assurance He Won't Be Executed
AP via TBO.com ^ | Aug 31, 2002

Posted on 08/31/2002 1:38:51 PM PDT by Jean S

Germany Refuses U.S. Evidence Against Sept. 11 Suspect Without Assurance He Won't Be Executed, Minister Says

BERLIN (AP) - Germany has told the United States it will withhold evidence against Sept. 11 conspiracy defendant Zacarias Moussaoui unless it receives assurances that the material won't be used to secure a death penalty against him, Germany's justice minister said in remarks released Saturday.

Investigators suspect Moussaoui, who is awaiting trial in Virginia on charges of conspiracy to commit terrorism and murder federal employees, was training to become the pilot of one of the airliners hijacked for the attacks when he was arrested.

German prosecutors say he received money for flight school fees from a member of the terrorist group based in the northern city of Hamburg. But the government insists it can't bend laws forbidding the extradition of suspects to countries with the death penalty or supplying evidence that could incriminate someone facing execution.

In an interview with the Der Spiegel news weekly, Justice Minister Herta Daeubler-Gmelin said Germany would provide documents on Moussaoui to the United States on condition that they "may not be used for a death sentence or an execution."

A letter explaining the long-standing German position had been sent to U.S. authorities in reply to a request for information about Moussaoui, she said.

"At the moment, the United States are examining our answer and will then get back to us," she said.

Outlawing the death penalty is a requirement for membership of the 15-member European Union.

Daeubler-Gmelin insisted the exchange was not putting more pressure on relations between the Germany and the United States already strained by Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder's criticism of U.S. threats to attack Iraq.

Cooperation between justice authorities in the two countries is "good and trustful," Daeubler-Gmelin said. "After Sept. 11, one shouldn't try to soften that."

Moussaoui, 34, was arrested last summer at a flight school in Minnesota and became the first person to be charged directly in connection with the attacks. He is being held in custody in pending the opening of his trial in January.

U.S. law enforcement officials have said Moussaoui received two money transfers from Ramzi Binalshibh, who roomed with suicide pilot Mohamed Atta in Hamburg and wanted to take part in the hijackings, but was unable to secure a visa.

German prosecutors this week announced that they had charged another suspect, Mounir El Motassadeq, with belonging to a terror group and 3,000 counts of being an accessory to murder for his alleged support for the Hamburg terror cell.

AP-ES-08-31-02 1607EDT


TOPICS: Breaking News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: zacariasmoussaoui
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To: Mentos
Ha! good one.
41 posted on 08/31/2002 2:38:07 PM PDT by Bogey78O
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To: Lazamataz
OK, moral dilemma for you, Laz:

The situation, from what I've read, is that the large number of people behind the officer and the soon-to-be-dead partisan are (a) being shown what happens when you dis the Wehrmacht, and (b) are being covered by a few MG42s.

Try for the gun, and your fellow countrymen, most of whom are your resource base for being a partisan (and thus enable future ops by your comrades) are going to get mown down like wheatstalks at harvest time.

Get shot, and the good folk go back to their homes, and many look for a way to stick it to the Hun bastards at a more propitious time.

Whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do when the come for you? (Bad Boys Bad Bad Boys) Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?

42 posted on 08/31/2002 2:40:19 PM PDT by Poohbah
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To: JeanS
Germany has told the United States it will withhold evidence against Sept. 11 conspiracy defendant Zacarias Moussaoui unless it receives assurances that the material won't be used to secure a death penalty

Extortion

43 posted on 08/31/2002 2:40:25 PM PDT by GVnana
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To: MadIvan
Don't get us wrong. We've really come full circle. Whereas in 1940 the fascists and the nazis had pushed all the free peoples off the mainland with only Britain hanging on to an island. In the 2000s we have the same thing with very litle difference.
44 posted on 08/31/2002 2:40:31 PM PDT by Bogey78O
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To: JeanS
I say we agree to their terms, get the proof, and execute him anyway. A post-execution exchange might go something like this:

Justice Minister Herta Daeubler-Gmelin: But, you said you vould not execute ze prisoner!

GWB: Well, you know, we didn't mean to kill him, Herta, but a funny thing happened on the way to the delousing chamber.

45 posted on 08/31/2002 2:40:56 PM PDT by nravoter
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To: nravoter
I say we contract the Mossad. Get them to steal the evidence for us and as a thank you we give Israel a nice shiney piece of military hardware.
46 posted on 08/31/2002 2:42:40 PM PDT by Bogey78O
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To: Hugin
I say we stop issuing visas to German citizens until they turn over the evidence. Same with any other country that withholds evidence or refuses to exradite wanted terrorists.

Visas? What Visas? Germany is on the Visa Waiver (tm) programm.

47 posted on 08/31/2002 2:44:02 PM PDT by eabinga
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To: dighton
Bump for the tender-hearted Germans, who wouldn't hurt a fly.

It seems those tender-hearted Germans went to great pains to protect the mother of all flybait:

It was reported from Paris that Saddam has a vast subterranean bomb shelter, a nuclear-proof "minicity", where he could hide for months from a US attack with no outside help, said Iraqi exiles.

They said Saddam had always been fascinated with underground shelters, and that the weapons of mass destruction currently the object of UN weapons inspectors were undoubtedly hidden beneath ground.

The sources said the sonar scanners used by UN weapons inspectors in 1993 to locate Saddam's weapons had found nothing because the weapons were buried too deep.

They said that although German engineers had designed Saddam's underground bomb shelter, it had been built exclusively by Iraqis to keep the exact location a secret.

The fate of the builders remains uncertain, they said.

The exiles described the shelter as a veritable palace, equipped to withstand nuclear attack, in which Saddam and his immediate family could live in total comfort for months with even a gymnasium, sauna, patio and artificial plants to provide the illusion of a garden.

The shelter is powered by its own underground electricity generating plant and equipped with a sophisticated telephone system. The system was so vast that it had electric cars. -- Sapa-AFP

Reminiscent of Yamantau Mountain

48 posted on 08/31/2002 2:46:29 PM PDT by PhilDragoo
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OK, I say we agree to no death penalty, if we sentence him to a 'Boxing Helena' penitentiary. Wouldn't even have to be for life, if that was the case.
49 posted on 08/31/2002 2:47:32 PM PDT by Diddle E. Squat
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To: nravoter
Contact link for the German Federal Minister of Justice Here: http://www.bmj.bund.de/eng/ministry/minister/10000003/
50 posted on 08/31/2002 2:47:35 PM PDT by jimbo123
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To: Lazamataz
this justifies a full-scale invasion, and conversion to an American state, of this once-sovereign nation.

The Nazis, and most of continental Europe for that matter, seem to have serious problems with amenisa. Perhaps flying a squadron of bombers over Dresden and Hamburg (without dropping any firebombs.....yet) will refresh their collectiv(ist) memories.

51 posted on 08/31/2002 2:56:44 PM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: jimbo123
Thank you for the link.

I demanded of the Secretary of State that she provide the evidence re Moussaoui.

She said she'd be in touch with me soon.

I'll forward the evidence to Mike in Queens who told Osama "this is my face. I live in Queens. You can kiss my [moose]."

Execute Moussaoui?

No no no no. I've got a perfectly good battery charger. I know the boy can dance.

52 posted on 08/31/2002 2:58:12 PM PDT by PhilDragoo
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To: JeanS; Dimensio
Justice Scalia in comments at a legal forum late last year, gave as his opinion that the reason that Europeans are so squeamish about capital punishment--even though Europe invented such methods of execution as hanging (Germany) and the guillotine (France)--is because they are a "post-Christian" society of mostly atheists.

Paraphrasing Justice Scalia: "If you believe that there is NOTHING AT ALL after this life, then in taking a man's life from him you take ALL THAT HE HAS. The religious person sees it merely as sending him on to his ultimate judgement, but the individual continues."

53 posted on 08/31/2002 2:58:15 PM PDT by Illbay
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To: rdb3
simple, say one thing and do another.
54 posted on 08/31/2002 2:58:50 PM PDT by contessa machiaveli
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To: MadIvan
Amen to that...never been to Auschwitz, but did tour the site of Dachau...I'll never forget that. Ever.

The overpowerful sense of evil could be felt in every step, with every room full of exhibits...

55 posted on 08/31/2002 3:05:07 PM PDT by NorCoGOP
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To: Bogey78O
Why should they do that, when they can just pay some

schmuck at the Pentagon to give them the plants for a lot less cost?

56 posted on 08/31/2002 3:05:39 PM PDT by Illbay
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To: JeanS
Let's go to war with Germany again. We'll kick their asses again.
57 posted on 08/31/2002 3:09:55 PM PDT by Excuse_My_Bellicosity
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To: JeanS
If the shoe was on the other foot, the "constitutionalists" would be applauding. Why are we so willing to piss on the idea of national sovereignty when it doesn't involve our own?
58 posted on 08/31/2002 3:10:11 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Illbay
I see it as Europeans saying "We are against the death penalty," in the way some trendy people say "I am a vegetarian." Smug self-righteousness and all. Just like the trendoids sneak a hot dog here and there when nobody's looking, I would wonder how many suspects in German custody never actually make it to trial? I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if European juris prudence involves a 21st century version of "shot while trying to escape."
59 posted on 08/31/2002 3:20:41 PM PDT by AmishDude
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To: 1rudeboy
Who said it's not their prerogative? We're just saying they're being jackasses. Sheesh.
60 posted on 08/31/2002 3:24:04 PM PDT by Bogey78O
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