Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The Bible vs. The Quran
Islam Review.com ^ | 08-30-02 | Abdullah Al Araby

Posted on 08/31/2002 5:30:20 AM PDT by vance

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 61-8081-100101-120 ... 161-179 next last
To: RightWhale
I must admit I am dumbfounded by your last. The law, the prophets and the psalms all pointed to Jesus, the Messiah.

What ramblings of Paul are you refering to? The part where he lambasts "the Jews"? Read the rest of the story. Paul predicted that his people would one day come to see the light, even while he critized them for failing to do so in his day.

Where are you getting this stuff?????

81 posted on 08/31/2002 6:02:33 PM PDT by Ahban
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 75 | View Replies]

To: Seti 1
Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 850 million

do you fall into this catagory? just curious.

82 posted on 08/31/2002 6:03:35 PM PDT by tutstar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: GiovannaNicoletta
Right, and you disbelieve, but I did want to get it on the record that God said that He wrote the Bible, not man.

OK, but every version of the Bible we have and has ever existed, all the way back to the Hebrew texts, was transcribed by men, who are fallible. The question is which version or translation is the closest to the word of God, which is something we don't know, but only believe.

Here's an interesting article comparing some of the english translations: All Those Translations!

Translators have certainly (but unintentionally) taken some liberties with the Scripture over the centuries. One Greek word can be translated to mean several different things in english, and can completely change the meaning of certain passages. Many passages are almost indentical in every version of the Bible, but some are not, and it's up to the individual to make a determination of what the correct translation is or, more importantly, meaning is. That's one of the aspects of faith.
83 posted on 08/31/2002 6:09:36 PM PDT by jenny65
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: Ahban
Read the rest of the story.

The rest of the story is that the massive law of Moses was dropped and replaced with the new law, a single law. All the OT was dropped. The NT is a collection of sayings in hidden language and a few symbolical stories. A lot of Apocalypse, which was a favored literary form at the time both in the Mystery Religions and in early Christianity and Gnosticism, makes up the best and favorite parts.

84 posted on 08/31/2002 6:17:02 PM PDT by RightWhale
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 81 | View Replies]

To: be131
"But of course there are manifold inconsistencies within the Bible (and probably the Quran as well). For example, compare the genalogies of Jesus given in Matthew and Luke. They don't even agree on the name of Joseph's father. "

Luke 3:23 Much learned labour has been used to reconcile this genealogy with that in Matthew, , and there are several ways of doing it; the following, which appears to me to be the best, is also the most simple and easy. For a more elaborate discussion of the subject, the reader is referred to the additional observations at the end of the chapter.

Matthew, in descending from Abraham to Joseph, the spouse of the blessed virgin, speaks of sons properly such, by way of natural generation: Abraham begat Isaac, and Isaac begat Jacob, etc.

But Luke, in ascending from the Saviour of the world to God himself, speaks of sons either properly or improperly such: on this account he uses an indeterminate mode of expression, which may be applied to sons either putatively or really such. And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being, as was supposed the son of Joseph-- of Heli-- of Matthat, etc.

This receives considerable support from Raphelius' method of reading the original oon (grk 5607) (hoos (grk 5613) enomizeto (grk 3543) huios (grk 5207) Iooseeph (grk 2501)) tou (grk 3588) Heeli (grk 2242), being (when reputed the son of Joseph) the son of Heli, etc.

That Luke does not always speak of sons properly such, is evident from the first and last person which he names: Jesus Christ was only the supposed son of Joseph, because Joseph was the husband of his mother Mary: and Adam, who is said to be the son of God, was such only by creation.

After this observation it is next necessary to consider, that, in the genealogy described by Luke, there are two sons improperly such: i. e. two sons-in-law, instead of two sons.

As the Hebrews never permitted women to enter into their genealogical tables, whenever a family happened to end with a daughter, instead of naming her in the genealogy, they inserted her husband, as the son of him who was, in reality, but his father-in-law. This import, Dr. Pearce has fully shown, nomizesthai (grk 3543) bears, in a variety of places-- Jesus was considered according to law, or allowed custom, to be the son of Joseph, as he was of Heli.

85 posted on 08/31/2002 6:29:00 PM PDT by Joshua
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: vance
Vance, I recommend "Race, Religion, and Racism, Vol. III: Jesus, Islam, and Christianity," by Dr. Fred Price, which I helped edit.

It is an excellent side-by-side of the claims of Islam and Christianity, and especially centers on the person of Jesus. It also includes references to the Hadith, the "other" holy book of Islam that all Muslims accept, but which no one mentions.

BTW, both the Hadith (and I think the Koran, though I could be wrong) says at least twice that Mohammad sinned daily. Sorry, I need a Savior who is sinless. I can sin on my own.

86 posted on 08/31/2002 6:37:31 PM PDT by LS
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: vance
Ahh - someone else has discovered IslamReview.com. An excellent site - I used it quite often in countering some of the pro-Moslem folks that were on Free Republic after the attacks. I've written to them a few times, and have always gotten a quick response to my questions and comments.

Anyone here who wants some excellent information and clarification regarding Islam (the religion of peace(tm)), and the contrasts between Islam and Christianity, I'd highly recommend this site.
87 posted on 08/31/2002 6:41:57 PM PDT by Tennessee_Bob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Destro
First, a general comment. It's amazing the lengths people will go to to avoid believing in Jesus. The contortions they go through with the dates of authorship are incredible

Yes the Egyptians did erase those they hated but scholars were able to find everyone erased.

How would we know? If they couldn't find them, we wouldn't know they were there (unless they were mentioned outside Egyptian records).

88 posted on 08/31/2002 6:43:57 PM PDT by A.J.Armitage
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 70 | View Replies]

To: Destro
PS: The Egyptians who recorded everything seem to have no record of Moses or the Exodus.

What's their official explanation on how the pyramids were built?

89 posted on 08/31/2002 6:46:34 PM PDT by Tennessee_Bob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: vance
bump for read later
90 posted on 08/31/2002 7:13:34 PM PDT by Michael2001
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Inyokern
Back to the question of what kind of assistance Mohammad had at the time. Mecca and Medina were filled with refugee intellectuals, philosophers, scribes, engineers and wealthy traders fleeing the first of many Mongol invasions. If Mohammad had needed someone able to read Phoenician script, he probably would not have had serious difficulties in that place at that time.

The issue shouldn't be Mohammad - rather, we should look to the social and technological issues as well as Mecca's position vis a vis "world trade".

In Mohammad's time, Mecca was a pretty good place to be compared to just about everywhere else in the world.

91 posted on 08/31/2002 7:14:25 PM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: AmishDude
Mohammad as a professional trader on a major route generally used by Jewish traders probably had a good command of Hebrew, or he had access to a translator.

He certainly had plenty to say about the times he had occasion to meet with Jews. In fact, he had started out with the idea that he should reform Judaism.

92 posted on 08/31/2002 7:17:21 PM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: semaj
All the tourist guides in Cairo are believing Moslems. Of course they will tell you the rubbed out spots are where Moses name had previously been written. It is an article of faith with them.
93 posted on 08/31/2002 7:34:35 PM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

To: Ahban
Some who have studied the matter more than I

The ones who have studied the matter the most say that Christianity is a perversion of Judism, that Jesus was a rabbi but no messiah, and that the last supper with its lamb was a Passover meal. I don't know and care less.

The flood story and many of the other Biblical stories are stock items in Middle East myth. The Babylonians had a Noah-type hero called Gilgamish. One of the kings justified his rule by claiming to have been saved by the gods when his mother placed him in a basket covered with pitch and set him adrift on the river where he was rescued by the king's daughter. These stories predate the OT by 1000 years. Kings regularly went up onto mountains to receive the law from the local god. There's a picture of it on the Hammurabi stele.

The Egyptian religion was in full flower in 3500BC when history begins and flourished until about 600AD. If you go back beyond 800BC you find Yahweh with a consort named Asherath, burnt offerings, and the occassional human sacrifice so I'm not sure where you would want to count from. At any rate, I think most people would agree that Christ was the founder of the Christian religion. To call Judism "proto-Christianity" is about as insulting to Jews as you could possibly be. That's the equivalent of calling Christianity "proto-New Age" or "proto-Scientology".

94 posted on 08/31/2002 7:41:49 PM PDT by Seti 1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: Ahban
The suggestions you make concerning chronology have been made by others but so far have not been accepted by the field. You can read reviews of one of the latest at:http://www.centuries.co.uk/quotes.htm. (I'm sorry. I don't know how to do a link).

The cities founded centuries later were most likely re-establishments of the original destroyed cities.

This seems unlikely since standard procedure is to take digs down to bed rock. The earliest levels can be dated by pottery, coins, etc.

How many records would they find in Iraq 2,000 years from now of the American's victory in desert storm?

Since we no longer write on clay tablets and pottery shards records may be a bit more perishable--especially those on tape. I really doubt that you believe the "cleaning up" hypothesis.

Don't you find it strange that the pure Word of God requires so much explaining and adjusting of dates?

Uh, what holocaust?

95 posted on 08/31/2002 8:12:26 PM PDT by Seti 1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]

To: tutstar
If all this belief in God is for nothing and we just turn back to dust, what does it matter, but what if God truly is?

I have no idea if God truly is or what God truly is but I'm quite sure that the Bronze Age children's stories cannot possibly be the answer. I remember a post by a (Jewish) FReeper which said that he didn't think that the God who created all the galaxies could be all that interested in the condition of his pickle.

96 posted on 08/31/2002 8:25:41 PM PDT by Seti 1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 78 | View Replies]

To: moteineye
No records of first borns is just silly. Where do you get such ideas?

Of course the Egyptians used chariots and very likely had some posted on the main route to the Levant. So?

The Sea of Reeds substituion for the Red Sea is one of those attempts to demystify the Bible. It's a swampy area which perhaps was passable in ancient times.

The Jews recorded victories and failures.

Which lost battles are recorded in the Torah?

97 posted on 08/31/2002 8:36:22 PM PDT by Seti 1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]

To: vance
iSLAM infidels. www.HezSez.com
98 posted on 08/31/2002 8:37:41 PM PDT by highenergyzone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: COBOL2Java
Thanks for the links. I'm going to have to learn how to do that.
99 posted on 08/31/2002 8:38:16 PM PDT by Seti 1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 61 | View Replies]

To: Vast Buffalo Wing Conspiracy
"The Bible, on the other hand, has stood the test of time. To suggest that the Bible has been altered is against both reason and historic findings. "

"Okay, this is where I stopped reading. This statement is absolutely false. Next contestant please."

You know not whereof you speak. The Bible is translated from thousands of documents and scores of manuscripts. Any question about a particular translation? No problem. Simply translate it afresh.

The Bible has not been tampered with relative to doctrine. Yes, there are mistakes in transmission, copyists, etc., but liberal and conservatives alike agree none of these impact anything of substance.

No one can ignore the scientific, medical, historical and epistemological evidence of the Bible. Space does not permit an adequate discussion of these. They are too numerous.

The information contained in the Bible is very obviously not of human origin. It, most obviously, is Divine.

It always amazes me how much time and effort people expend in order to prove the Bible is not the word of God and how much time they spend trying to prove God does not exist.

That is simply proof positive that, deep down, they believe both in God and in the Bible as God's word. They are simply trying to make themselves feel better with their own erroneous life's choices.

100 posted on 08/31/2002 8:39:39 PM PDT by hoosierskypilot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 61-8081-100101-120 ... 161-179 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson