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Did U.S. shoot first at Pearl Harbor?
Associated Press ^ | 29 August 2002

Posted on 08/29/2002 11:13:48 AM PDT by Asmodeus

HONOLULU, Aug. 28 — Researchers said Wednesday they found a Japanese midget submarine sunk more than an hour before the attack on Pearl Harbor. Discovery of the 78-foot vessel could provide the first physical evidence to back U.S. military assertions that it fired first against Japan in World War II and inflicted the first casualties.>p>

THE SUB was sunk by a Navy destroyer on Dec. 7, 1941. Two Japanese crewmen are believed still inside the submarine.

“It’s the shot that started World War II between the Americans and the Japanese,” said John Wiltshire, associate director of the Hawaii Undersea Research Laboratory, which found the sub. The two-man submarine was discovered unexpectedly at a depth of 1,200 feet and a few miles from Pearl Harbor by research craft making test dives, he said.

The sub led four other Japanese midget submarines to Pearl Harbor to take part in the attack. The newly discovered sub was believed to be the one sunk by the destroyer USS Ward before the attack began. Wiltshire said the crew is certain that this sub was sunk by the Ward because of a bullet hole in the conning tower and because it still has both torpedoes. Three of the subs have been previously accounted for; the remaining sub had fired both of its weapons.

Until the submarine was found, historian Daniel Martinez said eyewitness accounts were unconfirmed. Martinez, a historian for the USS Arizona Memorial, has interviewed the crew who fired the first shot, and a pilot who saw the submarine sink. “What they saw and what they felt was their recollection, now the proof has been found,” he said.

The submarines’ entry into the harbor was followed by the Sunday morning attack by Japanese planes that lasted two hours and left 21 U.S. ships heavily damaged, 323 aircraft damaged or destroyed, 2,390 people dead and 1,178 other wounded.

Terry Kerby, chief pilot of the deep-diving submersible that found the submarine, said it was covered in growth but was in excellent condition. “To actually come across it was a sobering moment, realizing that was the shot that started the Pacific war,” he said.

This is one of the two University of Hawaii deep diving submersibles that discovered a sunken Japanese midget submarine a few miles from Pearl Harbor.

Kerby and other researchers have been conducting dives in the area since the 1980s, and have always known the sub was somewhere out there. Wiltshire described the area as an underwater military junkyard. ‘To actually come across it was a sobering moment, realizing that was the shot that started the Pacific war.’ “The thing is quite difficult to find because of all the massive amounts of junk out in the area, and we were simply fortunate because we’ve run our test and training dives through here and know where a lot of the junk is,” Wiltshire said.

The submarine was the focus of a National Geographic expedition in 2000. A team of deep-water researchers led by undersea explorer Robert Ballard spent 10 days searching for the Japanese sub, using remotely operated imaging vehicles. Ballard is best known for finding the remains of the Titanic, Bismarck and Yorktown, along with the recent discovery of PT-109, the torpedo boat commanded by John F. Kennedy during World War II and sunk near the Solomon Islands.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; Japan; News/Current Events; US: Hawaii
KEYWORDS: danielmartinez; hawaii; japan; japanese; johnwiltshire; pearlharbor; robertballard; usnavy; ussward; worldwar2
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To: Poohbah
I still could no find my original sources that lay this all out so I can’t back it up .... sorry :>

(had a disk crash some months back and lost a lot) all I can offer is some small bits of the story

Part of the first wave did go (mostly) around the west side of the Oahu (see map)

The 6 am launch from Enterprise to fly in to port was normal procedure when returning to port and was not in response to the attack

Ensign Gonzales & Aircrew man Kozelek in SBD 6-B-3 ( of Bombing 6 ) were part of the 6 AM launch from Enterprise see action reports http://www.cv6.org/ship/logs/ph/ and were lost that day early on.

Later research seem to indicate (the sources I was looking for) that 6-B-3 may have been lost earlier then recalled in some of the action reports and may have been the first loss of the day

(If I recall right they look at the Enterprise radio log that logged real time, the transmissions from 6-B-3 as opposed to pilots reports time line that were written at the end of a very busy day)

121 posted on 08/30/2002 12:06:20 AM PDT by tophat9000
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To: Willie Green
What's this? A prelude to revisionist claims that Japan then attacked Pearl Harbor in retaliation?

No, they are saying that Pearl Harbor attacked the Japanese...

122 posted on 08/30/2002 1:38:23 AM PDT by Swordmaker
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To: Junior
These revisionists will eventually spin 9/11 into:

"The evil capitalist Americans conspired to hit the honest,peace loving arabian tourists with the World Trade Towers. The merry band of tourists had merely requested their airplane crew to divert the flight so they could get some aerial pictures of the Great City of New York. These innocent travelers were unjustly knocked out of the skies while snapping photos of the spectacular scenery by a sneak attack on their aircraft when the two secret weapons, designed by the American military/industrial complex, cunningly disguised as office buildings, moved rapidly into their paths."

And it will be believed by people who haven't a clue.

Just give them time.
123 posted on 08/30/2002 2:02:11 AM PDT by Swordmaker
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To: Chad Fairbanks
In the melee, Kanahele was wounded, Harada was shot by the pilot before taking his own life with the shotgun.

According to the accounts I've read it was Harada who shot himself & the pilot, after shooting and wounding Kanahele, was killed when the big Hawaiian threw him against a stone wall.

124 posted on 08/30/2002 7:21:14 AM PDT by skeeter
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To: skeeter
Could be... this is the only account I've seen... Maybe the Hawaiian wrote something (a personal account) - I'll have to look around :0)
125 posted on 08/30/2002 7:38:38 AM PDT by Chad Fairbanks
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To: Kenton
We all live in a YELLOW submarine...."
126 posted on 08/30/2002 12:11:40 PM PDT by clintonh8r
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Researchers ... found a Japanese midget submarine sunk more than an hour before the attack on Pearl Harbor. Discovery of the 78-foot vessel could provide the first physical evidence to back U.S. military assertions that it fired first against Japan in World War II and inflicted the first casualties.

Well, THAT changes everything. America was at fault for the Pacific portion of WW2, now I know for sure. I mean, what were our forces thinking to take out an armed mini-sub from a nation friendly to Germany and not exactly friendly to the US, during a world war, before it could be given a chance to fire on them?

Yes, America was at fault once again. Shame on us.

Not.

127 posted on 08/30/2002 12:47:27 PM PDT by GretchenEE
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To: kms61; DoughtyOne
Sometimes people on FR are just a BIT too quick to see liberal bias. IMHO.

Perhaps DoughtyOne saw a few of the other headlines on this before posting. Drudge promoted a story, I think from UPI, under headlines that said the US fired the first shot at Pearl Harbor, thus starting the hostilities. I beg to differ. We responded to an attack that was underway that simply had not yet had time to reach its total, final destination, which, considering the outcome, one must conclude was Pearl Harbor, which we had every right to defend from attack.

The action against the Japanese sub was no different from the Flight 93 passengers on September 11, other than that those now-dead souls had the knowledge that a series of attacks had already succeeded.

128 posted on 08/30/2002 1:14:27 PM PDT by GretchenEE
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
Didn't WWII begin when the Germans and Soviets defeated and divided Poland in Sept., '39?
Timeline. Invasion/annexation of Austria and the Sudetenland/Czechoslovakia in '38.
129 posted on 08/31/2002 10:52:47 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
You might consider Wikipedia World War II
In 1936 the German army reoccupied the Rhineland.
...as the "start" of the whole thing. But, you would have to go back to the Treaty of Versailles and WWI and so forth and so on.
The British and French should've been more proactive in responding in '36 and '38. Chambelain was an appeaser IMO.
130 posted on 08/31/2002 11:00:07 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
Chamberlain
131 posted on 08/31/2002 11:04:56 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: philman_36
Thanks for the links, philman. The 1938 annexation of the Sudentenland was approved by both the British and the French so I'm not certain it was considered an "act of war." The "Reader's Digest Illustrated Story of WWII" names the 1939 attack on Poland as the official beginning of the war....but it also praises FDR. (^:
132 posted on 08/31/2002 3:20:11 PM PDT by Ragtime Cowgirl
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
The 1938 annexation of the Sudentenland was approved by both the British and the French so I'm not certain it was considered an "act of war."
I'd be willing to bet that the people of the Sudetenland/Czechoslovakia would view it differently.
133 posted on 08/31/2002 11:08:53 PM PDT by philman_36
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To: philman_36
Amen. The trial lawyers are probably already working on a case for reparations.
134 posted on 09/01/2002 5:47:24 PM PDT by Ragtime Cowgirl
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