[Bobby777]

you must have not read my replies on this thread at all ... I don't see any questions about the Miraculous Conception here ... and avoided the question ... Did Jesus perpetually exist or was He not created until the "birth"? ... I think you've made your position already clear and we're going to disagree ...

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

I did read your posts as did everyone else who is on the same page as I am. I'm not talking about the Immaculate Conception, but it sounds like you are talking about something entirely different from what everyone else is perceiving here. Enlighten us please.