Jedi 'Religion' Grows in Australia

BBC ^ | 8/27/02

[marshmallow]

More than 70,000 people in Australia have declared that they are followers of the Jedi faith, the religion created by the Star Wars films.

A recent census found that one in 270 respondents - or 0.37% of the population - say they believe in "the force", an energy field that gives Jedi Knights like Luke Skywalker their power in the films.

Most of the 70,509 people who wrote Jedi on their census forms were suspected to have done so in response to an e-mail encouraging all Star Wars fans to get it recognised as an official religion.

But the majority do not seriously tell each other: "May the force be with you", according to Australian Star Wars Appreciation Society president Chris Brennan.

"When you look at it you probably have got about 5,000 people in that 70,000 that were true hard-core people that would believe the Jedi religion carte blanche," he told ABC Radio.

"Then you would have 50,000 fans that said 'oh yeah we'll just put down Jedi for fun, we don't actually have a religion of our own'.

"Then you probably have 15,000 people who did it just to give the government a bit of curry," he said.

'Not defined'

An e-mail was sent around the world in 2001 saying that if 10,000 people declared they were Jedi, it would be recognised as an official religion.

But the Australian Bureau of Statistics said it would be categorised as "not defined".

Thousands of people in New Zealand and the UK also followed the advice of the e-mail - with Jedi Knight even being included on the list of religions by UK census authorities.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

sorry for the double post; mea culpa

[stuartcr]

I'm sure they didn't change their stories, I'm just saying that since all that happened, what was written down, describing the events, probably has changed. Besides, we really don't know what they said, we just have some very old testaments. It's not a problem to believe someone was murdered, no matter the consequence, primarily because that person is dead. It is not at all believable that someone came back from the dead. It all rests on faith, and faith alone. If you want to believe someone came back from the dead, fine.

[Diddle E. Squat]

More than 70,000 people in Australia have declared that they are followers of the Jedi faith

Was that predestined?

[Free Trapper]

Strange.

In 1979 or 80 I was driving OTR and a guy asked for a ride.He was pretty sharp,about 20 and we talked about archaeology mostly.I really enjoyed his company as we had many interests alike.

When I asked his religious beliefs he said he believed in "The Force" and didn't understand that I had not heard of "The Force".I took it to mean an all powerfull being.

A couple years later I found out what Star Wars was and the pieces fit.This must have begun a (long) time back.

Also,I just remembered,he dropped a sheathknife in my truck when I let him off and may still have it around.Do you think I might have Luke's light saber?

[Diddle E. Squat]

Josephus, for starters.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

To: OrthodoxPresbyterian I'm sure they didn't change their stories, I'm just saying that since all that happened, what was written down, describing the events, probably has changed. Besides, we really don't know what they said, we just have some very old testaments. It's not a problem to believe someone was murdered, no matter the consequence, primarily because that person is dead. It is not at all believable that someone came back from the dead. It all rests on faith, and faith alone. If you want to believe someone came back from the dead, fine.

No, it does not rest on Faith. That's as silly as saying that the historical facticity of Julius Caesar's murder rests of "faith". It is a silly and irrational statement.

The Resurrection of Jesus Christ is a recorded fact of History attested by numerous Eyewitnesses and committed to written records in which we may justly have FAR more evidentiary confidence (for the reasons posted above) than, for example, Julius Caesar's The Gallic Wars.

Manuscript Evidence for Ancient Writings

Author	Written	Earliest Copy	Time Span	# Mss.
Caesar	100-44 B.C.	900 A.D.	1,000 yrs	10
Plato	427-347 B.C.	900 A.D.	1,200 yrs	7
Thucydides	460-400 B.C.	900 A.D.	1,300 yrs	8
Tacitus	100 A.D.	1100 A.D.	1,000 yrs	20
Suetonius	75-160 A.D.	950 A.D.	800 yrs	8
Homer (Iliad)	900 B.C.	400 B.C.	500 yrs	643
New Testament	40-100 A.D.	125 A.D.	25-50 yrs	24,000

---

[kms61]

Sorry, I just disagree on that point. Fanaticism takes many forms and I can easily envision people convincing themselves of something so strongly they're willing to die for it....and the Bible only talks about those who DIDN'T recant. I wonder how many did?

[kms61]

The death of Julius Caesar isn't in dispute. If someone wanted me to believe he rose from the dead, however....

[stuartcr]

The resurrection is not a fact of history, it is a belief. No one really has any proof of historical events beyond that which is witnessed by a living human, but all of them are at least believable. Rising from the dead, is not. People die every day, whether murdered or not. People do not rise from the dead, if they were truly dead in the first place. Please give me some proof of life after death of anyone, other than the bible. I have no problem with your faith, why do you insist that I believe the same?

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

It is not at all believable that someone came back from the dead. It all rests on faith, and faith alone. If you want to believe someone came back from the dead, fine.

The Garden Tomb

August 27, 2002 and still empty.

[kms61]

You're expecting us to accept that an event took place which science, medicine, human experience, and commmon sense say has never happened and is impossible. I just don't think the evidence you provide is convincing given the hill we have to climb to accept your premise.

I just think you're better off using the faith argument than using evidence which is sketchy at best, relative to the extraordinary event you're trying to prove.

If Osama's men claimed he was killed and rose from the dead, I have no doubt that many of them would say they were eyewitnesses to the occurrence, and would be quite willing to die rather than recant. I still wouldn't believe them.

And no, I'm not saying Jesus and OBL are morally equivalent.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

Sorry, I just disagree on that point. Fanaticism takes many forms and I can easily envision people convincing themselves of something so strongly they're willing to die for it....and the Bible only talks about those who DIDN'T recant. I wonder how many did?

Only there is no evidence whatsoever that these folks were "fanatics" who had "deluded" themselves. The Sanhedrin had every reason to disprove their accounts (if they could); why not just tramp down to the Tomb and produce the Body??

[stuartcr]

You have no proof that it was ever occupied, you have no proof that Jesus was really dead, you have no proof that it is even the real tomb. You have faith, and I applaud that, I just don't agree.

[Salman]

"Then you probably have 15,000 people who did it just to give the government a bit of curry," he said.

Don't you just love how they talk.

[balrog666]

"This just in from Spain. General Francisco Franco is still dead."

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

The resurrection is not a fact of history, it is a belief.

Again, that is like saying that The Gallic War is "not a fact of History, it is a belief". That's a silly and irrational statement.

No one really has any proof of historical events beyond that which is witnessed by a living human, but all of them are at least believable.

These events were witnessed by living humans, and are believable. The eyewitnesses would rather die than renounce their story, the Tomb is empty, etc.

The Resurrection of Jesus Christ is as factual as the Gallic War. You don't have to "believe" in either, but that does not change the matter that both ARE well-evidenced Historical Facts.

Rising from the dead, is not. People die every day, whether murdered or not. People do not rise from the dead, if they were truly dead in the first place. Please give me some proof of life after death of anyone, other than the bible. I have no problem with your faith, why do you insist that I believe the same?

I do not insist that you believe the same. In America, you have the religious freedom to believe irrational idiocies if you like. (That's one of the Presbyterian Church's gifts of liberty to the people of this Nation which she largely created!!)

No one is forcing you to believe in the facticity of the Gallic War; it is just a well-evidenced Historical Fact which it is irrational and silly to deny. Likewise, no one is forcing you to believe in the facticity of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ; it is just a well-evidenced Historical Fact which it is irrational and silly to deny.

[Trailerpark Badass]

Well, people have been killing other people over their religious differences for 10's of thousands of years. If being killed for your religion proved its reality, all current religions would be proved -- thus a contradiction.

Historically, "religious" wars have had as their cause amalgams of cultural, economic, and political issues. Very few that I can think have been fought purely over religious doctrine. Generally, religion has only served to higlight other existing cultural differences while providing the combatants with the kind of psychological encouragement most beneficial in war.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

You have no proof that it was ever occupied, you have no proof that Jesus was really dead,

So you're maintaining that Roman executioners were incompetent? (chortle)

Now that's unbelievable.

you have no proof that it is even the real tomb.

Irrelevant. If the Tomb WERE NOT empty, the Sanhedrin would have said so.

You have faith, and I applaud that, I just don't agree.

I have Facts, which you are emotionally unable to accept (despite the reality that they are Historical Facts).

[kms61]

Do we have the minutes of the Sanhedrin? OP, you are missing the point. If there's conclusive evidence, there's no need for faith! I'm really not slamming you. I wish I had faith like yours, but I don't. Forgive me for putting words in your mouth, but you should be saying, "no, it doesn't make sense according to our human reasoning, but I believe anyway, because of what I feel in my heart and the difference it has made in my life and the lives of so many others."

If more Christians would say that, and more importantly, Live It, they would go a lot further toward convincing a skeptic like me than by trying to factually prove the unprovable.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

If Osama's men claimed he was killed and rose from the dead, I have no doubt that many of them would say they were eyewitnesses to the occurrence, and would be quite willing to die rather than recant. I still wouldn't believe them.

Nope, I don't buy it. Men will not die for a statement they know to be false, especially when their statement could be easily disproven by the Sanhedrin just tramping down to the Tomb and pointing out the dead Body.

Oops... that's odd... hey, where did that Body go??