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The Environmentalists Are Wrong
The New York Times ^ | 08/26/2002 | BJORN LOMBORG

Posted on 08/25/2002 9:10:35 PM PDT by Pokey78

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To: Bagels_and_Cheese
In all seriousness,(not really a word), I must correct your apparently brainwashed mentality.

The U.S. was at one time in dire straights environmentally. We turned that around along time ago beginning with the Great lakes cleanup and it has continued to this day. Sure, we neglect something here or there, but put it right as soon as the problem comes to light.

Some, not all, of the environmentalist people do a yeomans job of monitoring situations and keeping us informed. What hurts the cause more than anything is the wacko who really is not a true environmentalist, but a ego driven wierdo who hates technology and and kind of progress. They want to bring us back to the dark ages and will kill to do it.

These folks have multiple agendas with most of them having nothing to do with the environment. Save the deer, save the spotted owl, save the sucker fish save the gnarly toad licker!!!!!On and on it goes and they are so in your face it makes you want to do 10-20 just to get rid of them!!!!

I hope you are not one of those, are you?

21 posted on 08/25/2002 11:12:47 PM PDT by Cold Heat
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To: Bagels_and_Cheese
Asian, and Latin countries to have low work standards and low wages to enjoy our cheap TV's and fresh bananas - they are third world because we want them to be

If we are going to play the blame game, lets put the blame where it belongs, squarley on their corrupt totalatarian governments,

22 posted on 08/25/2002 11:20:56 PM PDT by c-b 1
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To: GaryMontana
Europe and the rest of the world are blaming the US for failing the world's poor

What, by giving them jobs and billions of dollars more in aid than any other country. Tell these ingrates to take a hike. The U.S. is Great!

23 posted on 08/25/2002 11:23:30 PM PDT by BJungNan
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To: Bagels_and_Cheese
Hey buddy, come to rural Iowa sometime. They is so much damn wildlife the roads are littered with carcasses. Try growing a garden. We have had so much rain the last three years that there is no more groundwater deficit, older trees are able to heal themselves with rapid growth and the dead grass in unmowed pastures is rotting and allowing the new stuff to grow all year. Everything is an emerald green.

As far as that goes, if I recall when the Israelis took over there the place was a worthless desert. Now it's a quite beautiful I understand, and they have a modern lifestyle too. Seems to me that they aren't trashing things there and managing to balance the two.

24 posted on 08/26/2002 12:30:26 AM PDT by Free Vulcan
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To: Bagels_and_Cheese
no one can deny that we are killing this planet.

Please provide factual basis for this claim.

25 posted on 08/26/2002 2:57:54 AM PDT by Thebaddog
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To: Bagels_and_Cheese
Welcome to FR. Obvious you are trolling since you offer no facts only flames.
26 posted on 08/26/2002 3:12:26 AM PDT by KeyWest
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To: Bagels_and_Cheese
I know it cramps your white upper class style to recycle your trash. Yeah, it cramps my white upper class style when I watch the trash man pick up my recycle bin from the curb and dump it in with the rest of the garbage. Of course, he's a "brother" so by definition he isn't doing anything wrong.

Our way of keeping a brother down. This is really the agenda in your entire post isn't it? Keep up the race war. As another poster so rightly points out, the environmentalist movement is really the modern vehicle for the Stalinist movement. The communist trash are real good at setting races against one another for their own advancement. Ultimately, they don't care about you, your brothers, the environment, snail darters, or some third world nation. Labor on comrade.

27 posted on 08/26/2002 3:30:29 AM PDT by RushLake
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To: Pokey78
This is a fine article by a clear and rational thinker. Third world countries ARE far more destructive of the environment than more developed countries, for precisely the reasons stated here. Witness the envirionmental hazards that were revealed when the excesses of East Germany and parts of the of the former Soviet Union collapsed, and opened up.

The Kyoto Treaty is a fraud, nine ways from Sunday. Only leftists and enviro-nazis take it seriously. Of course, such types will constitute a solid majority at Johannesburg.

Congressman Billybob

Click for latest column: "Memo to CBS about Bill Clinton."

Click for latest book: "to Restore Trust in America"

28 posted on 08/26/2002 5:02:48 AM PDT by Congressman Billybob
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To: Bagels_and_Cheese
...no one can deny that we are killing this planet. Only a real chump or moron would actually believe

Ok Ok, so only a chump or moron Or Christian would deny this!
The Lord God Almighty, Creator of Heaven AND Earth says that "you (mankind) cannot move the foundations of the earth."

It is some men's arrogance that believes we that we can destroy the earth.

The Ozone hole reduced as the solar storms abated, the warming and cooling of the earth will continue in cycles, (even eviro-weenies are not predicting the kinds of temperatures the earth had during the dinosaurs).
I liked one climatologists comments about this: "The earth has been warming since the last ice age and will continue to warm until it begins moving into another ice age".
As to extinction - most scientist say that 90% of the species were extinct before man showed up on the planet.

When I hear the ridiculous statement from the 'weenies' "let it go back to it natural state" I get crazy. Natural state at what period in time?! and natural for what?! We were given the instructions to "Tend", that means work it, plant it, weed it, prune it, water it, fertilize it, in short make the garden conform to our needs. The wackos are the ones that would shrug off their God given responsibilities.

To blame the USA is absurd!, we feed more of the world's population than any other nation on earth. Nearly all of Africa has a 12 month growing cycle- yet they continually mis-manage and endure famines, they do not control their water resources- so have difficultly during droughts- Muslims are notorious for neglecting to turn nutrients back into the soil, and their lack of 'gardening' means a continually expanding desert. When they had control of Israel, they took a land that was filled with olive trees and fruit and turned it into desert. During the 1950's the Newpaper headlines were of the new Israeli state's work in Gaza and the 'blooming of the desert'.

The enviro's should spend more time with the under-developed nations teaching them how to plan ahead; like dig wells and reserviors, of how to turn debrie back into the earth, so the earth can be more fertile.

Sorry, go off the point,
1. The earth gets hotter
2. The earth gets cooler
3. These cycles will continue until God says, "Stop".

29 posted on 08/26/2002 5:14:33 AM PDT by LinnieBeth
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To: Bagels_and_Cheese
"WE" are not "keeping the brothers down." The brothers are keeping the brothers down. In fact, as Zimbabwe demonstrates, the brothers are quite capable of taking the second most prosperous country in Africa, and reducing it from a massive exporter of food, to a vicious, starving relic of a nation.

Compare the prosperity of Singapore, which has a dense population and almost zero natural resources, to even South Africa, which has low density population and huge natural resources. Which one is healthy, wealthy and productive? Which one is slipping day by day closer to barbarism?

Most nations in Africa have delibrately chosen, since independence, the wrong kinds of government and the wrong kinds of economic markets. Those bad choices have led directly to the results which you decry. This is not a white-black thing. The USSR collapsed because of exactly the same bad decisions. Other than China, Africa is the promary place in the world where Marxism still survives -- and unlike China, Africa's idea of dictatorship is steal everything that isn't nailed down, and kill everyone who disagrees with you. Even China, which is no model of either peace or prosperity, has realized that such policies are fatal to a nation.

No one except Africans can save Africans from the stupidity of their current governmental decisions.

Congressman Billybob

Click for latest column: "Memo to CBS about Bill Clinton."

Click for latest book: "to Restore Trust in America"

30 posted on 08/26/2002 5:14:43 AM PDT by Congressman Billybob
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To: LloydofDSS
What can we do here in the US to reduce the population increases in other third world countries? The only thing we can do is export capitalism, which is another word for human freedom.

Disease, politics and war have ravished the third world, but runaway overpopulation threatens many countries.

Our food donations have saved millions from starvation.

How to reduce the population?

When I was a kid I had an ant farm.

When I stopped feeding them, they died.

31 posted on 08/26/2002 5:34:26 AM PDT by CROSSHIGHWAYMAN
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To: Bagels_and_Cheese
no one can deny that we are killing this planet.

I deny we are killing the planet.

And my opinion is worth at least as much as yours.

Have you read Lomborg's book?
Have you heard of the dozens of artiles criticizing in detail the assumptions in existing climate models and their present inability to "predict" recent past climate?

psssst! that's the basis on which all these predictions of doom and gloom are based.

Do you know the definition of "science"?
Third or fourth grade stuff, if I remember correctly.

32 posted on 08/26/2002 5:41:28 AM PDT by Publius6961
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To: Bagels_and_Cheese
Another hit and run poster.

It looks like some fellow FReepers have already ripped your little diatribe to shreds, so I'm not even going to get started.

I had a blast watching a segment on "Real TV" a few nights ago where the greenpeace idiots were getting blown off of their little dingys with water from firehoses being used by Russian crewmen on a cargo ship. Just my little dig, OK? Have a nice day.

33 posted on 08/26/2002 6:09:22 AM PDT by Looking4Truth
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To: Pokey78
The last paragraph of this article is the most important.

"Such a move would regain for the US the moral highground.......But if the the US is willing to commit the resources to ensure development, it could emerge as a savior."

A lot of conservatives and many, many freepers will loudly complain should Bush follow Lomborg's advice on this. Although it would be cheaper than Kyoto, this "committing the resources" will be a sizable increase in foreign aid.

Recall the increase in foreign aid that came about when Bush made his UN speech in Monterrey, Mexico that was used to slap down the the notion of a UN tax. There were many BushBash threads here regarding that increase in foreign aid.

Also recall that Bush followed the advice of NASA scientist Hansen on taking the moral high ground in regard US emissions of pollutants. Although this path left CO2 as voluntary, it set strict limits on CO, methane, CFC, soot particles, NOx, VOCs, etc. Many were displeased with this.

It is a no-win situation for Bush. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

34 posted on 08/26/2002 6:13:41 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Bagels_and_Cheese
Check your facts befroe you shhot from the lip.

The watermelon enviros continue to use the chimera of environmental degredation as a means to the larger agenda - collective economics and policy over individual property rights and initiative.

The facts are difficult thing. The environment in the developed world is better now than any time in the last 150 years. It continues to improve. Prices for life's basics are lower.

You can be green and believe in private property. I am and I do.
35 posted on 08/26/2002 7:13:51 AM PDT by G L Tirebiter
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To: foghornleghorn
I agree with him except for his assertion that it is demonstrated that man's emission of carbon dioxide has caused warming. This is not proven by any empirical evidence, only by models
 
Everybody tries to poke little holes in the greenhouse models by arguing about the effect of clouds, or dust particles, or whatever, but they miss a hole big enough to drive a truck through.
 
CO2 is only a small component of the overall greenhouse effect, the main "greenhouse gas" is water, by a factor of many times. The assumption is that the added greenhouse gases will cause more and more water to boil off, in an exponential run-away.
 
Hello. No wonder you have a model that predicts the end of the world, because you have chosen a model that presumes that the carbon dioxide/water cycle is unstable to begin with. If this is so, why are we still here?

36 posted on 08/26/2002 8:27:55 AM PDT by dinasour
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Comment #37 Removed by Moderator

Comment #38 Removed by Moderator

To: Bagels_and_Cheese
The earth is fine? Amazing. I forget that most people that left feedback think the U.S. constitutes most of the planet. Not like I am going to stop your ignorance from taking place.

Yes, the earth is fine. It was here before you, and it will survive even you.

I have no idea what "most people that left feedback" means. If you are going to bother typing your thoughts to an American-based forum, you might consider learning English.

Oh, and ignorance does not "take place." Yours, in fact, metastasizes.

39 posted on 08/26/2002 7:36:45 PM PDT by M. Thatcher
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Comment #40 Removed by Moderator


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