AMNESTY FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS? (a question for Freepers)

August 22nd, 2002 | Sabertooth

[Sabertooth]

This is a vanity post, let's get that straight from the start.

Perhaps the most vain aspect of it is the conceit that it might stay on topic, but I'm going to give it a whirl.

One of the more contentious species of threads encountered on Free Republic are those dealing with the subject of America's immigration policy, particularly with regard to the Illegal Aliens currently in our country. According a range of reasonable sources, the estimates of their numbers here currently here range from six to thirteen million. Whatever the actual count, there are quite a few people now in violation of American immigration law.

One subtopic that inevitably arises is the question of Amnesty:

Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?

That's the question I'd like to put forward to the members of Free Republic.

Almost as inevitably on threads dealing with this subject, flame wars erupt. It's not my purpose to instigate another round of that, they're rather predictable. So I'd like to ask that your comments, if you're inclined to share them, focus on the big picture of American immigration policy, with particular attention to the subject of Amnesty. I'm not interested in the stock and gratuitous divisiveness of race-baiting or referring to the President as "Jorge," or anything of that nature from any quarter. It achieves nothing, it's sulphurous methane heat with no light shed.

I'd also like to avoid ad hominem ambushes. I'm genuinely interested in learning the collective feelings of Free Republic members on this subject. If you're gonna post, I'd like to ask that you ante up with your opinion on the question at hand before engaging the discussion with others. No taking potshots from the obscurity of the sidelines. I'll post my opinion below at #1.

Fair enough?

So, once again, here's the question:

Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?

[VA Advogado]

If a home invader succeeded in breaking into your house, would you say, "Oh well, he's already in. We might as well let him do what he wants."?

Sure. If he's hard working, cooks me dinner, sweeps the floor and cleans the bathroom. Why not?

[VA Advogado]

I think its time to get behind your President and change your mind on bashing immigrants.

[madfly]

Nice work on this thread, Sabertruth :=)

Anyone wishing to be ON or OFF my Illegal Alien Ping List, please freepmail me.

thanks

[4Freedom]

"How do you think the military is going to stop illegal immigration? I keep asking this question and nobody answers."

First, we need to construct barriers along both of our land borders where the natural terrain isn't barrier enough.

The southern border should require less than 2,000 miles of barriers and the northern border less than 4,000.

For sake of argument, let's just call it 2,000 and 4,000 miles.

I favor 30-foot-tall-walls. I doubt that 5% of the illegals sauntering leisurely over our land borders now would even attempt to climb over or tunnel under that.

Next, deploy the military using the 5-1, 24-7, watch stander rule.

To do a more than adequate job, we place 5 military guards per mile or 10,000 per shift on the southern border. Divide another 4,000 per shift into teams of 4 or 5 dispersed along the border as roving back-up and pizza deliverers.

That's 14,000 per shift or 42,000 for the 3 shifts. Then add another 28,000 to provide support, resupply and days off.

Double these numbers for the northern border.

I actually believe all of these numbers are more than what's needed and could be trimmed back once the military actually sees how it goes.

The barriers along the southern border could be built for less than $10 billion and the northern barriers for less than $20 billion. Cost of the troops would be less than $15 billion per year.

That's alot less than the illegals, drug smugglers, terrorists, criminal organizations and agents of foreign governments cost us each year, now.

Simultaneously, a plan similar to:

They Will Deport Themselves

is instituted and we beef up the Coast Guard.

That frees up all of the existing border patrol and INS agents to take care of interior enforcement. Not one single soldier has to venture away from the wall, when they're on duty.

Part of the cost of the wall could be offset by advertising dollars.

Once we have all of the illegals out, we can consider turning the patrol of the walls over to the border patrol, if it makes sense.

When that time comes, give the guys already patrolling the border in military uniforms hiring preference for those jobs.

The National Guard will always be there to back up the border patrol, if things get out of hand, again.

I'd much rather spend the billions putting American citizens to work building and maintaining these walls, guarding them in military, border patrol and Coast Guard uniforms.

We're hiring 72,000 American citizens to be security screeners in our airports by November. We can do this, too.

We hold down our taxes, get our schools and emergency medical healthcare system back under control, take control of legal immigration, etc., etc..

Reaganwuzthebest brought us the good news that the liberal interpretation of the 14th Amendment was finally being challenged in the courts.

That will put an end to this 'anchor baby', liberal scam.

What do you think, Ajnin? Marine Inspector?

[FITZ]

I'm definitely against amnesty. It's a very silly idea---for one ---that pretty much eliminates their jobs since they come to do the jobs no Americans will do and for less than minimum wage. Their employers will just have to start over finding more illegals then and the former illegals end up on one or many government handout programs ---like the last batch.

[raybbr]

Hey Saber, I have been reading this thread but I don't think I voted.

No Amnesty for Illegal aliens!!!!

[raybbr]

Hey VA, I can disagree with my President when I think he's wrong.

BTW are you for amnesty for ALL illegal aliens or only the hispanics, Mexicans, people of Spanish descent, etc?

[gunshy]

You really need to come over here and vote. At the same time, tell all the people that there is no illegal immigrant problem.

[Twodees]

Watch out about responding to him with anything less than his own insults. He'll start pinging you to his favorite thread, the Daily W Swoonfest. He pinged Saber and me to it this morning, apropos to nothing whatsoever except the voices in his empty head.

[kennyo]

Communist? VA Advogado?Who knows.But he's more than likely a spook sent here to dispirit Freepers.Engaging him is a waste of time,which is what he wants.

[kennyo]

FAIR is a racist, aryan hate group and its biased numbers should not be given any credit.?

And your evidence for that is? Or is it racist of me to ask you to substantiate a charge?

So he gives you the corrupt Anti-Defamation group's assessment.The originators of the oppressive "hate-crimes" laws.Only reaffirms my belief that this guy is a SPOOK.

[4Freedom]

I hope nobody minds the 'ping'.

I thought maybe some of you Freepers might want to take a moment to vote in this poll, if you haven't already and add your 2 cents.

[4Freedom]

I hope you don't mind the 'ping'.

I thought maybe you might want to voice your opinion on amnesty.

[4Freedom]

What do you think of amnesty for illegals? Maybe we might agree about something for once.

Hope you don't mind the 'ping'.

[madfly]

I just got an excellent free Video from American Border Patrol. I talked To Glenn Spencer and he promises absolute confidentiality when you fill out the order form.

He was taking the last load of his move to Sierra Vista, Arizona.

Quote from his mail out:

WORKING WITH RANCHERS
As has American Patrol for years, ABP will work with ranchers as Robert Barnett of Douglas, Arizona (featured in Time Magazine), to focus on how, when, and where illegal aliens are crossing out border. We will use video cameras and infrared technology to show, on a regular basis, how illegal aliens are violating our SOVEREIGNTY. (What would Americans think of a Webcam mounted on popular invasion ruotes? How many would log on to try to catch aliens invading their nation? Plenty.)

BORDER PATROL TACTICS
Under the direction of Bill King, Ron Sanders,and other former Border Patrol officials, we will explain to the American people, on a blow-by-blow basis, how the battle for our borders is going. we ill tell them why illegal aliens are dying in the deesert and what we can do to stop it. We will tell them why illegal aliens continue to cross the border, even after they have been arrested up to fifteen time. We will show the American people how terrorits can cross our borders, undetected and undeterred. And, if they want to help their country, we will show Americans how to do it.

. This video is great instead of using talking points to show friends and neigbors and those in denial, that this is a dangerous and growing issue and needs to addressed in the upcoming elections.

Please give it a look-see!

Go Here
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Ping your friends!

American Border Patrol Network

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This is your mailing label, please use conventional capitalization.

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Comments (Please specify DVD or VHS) - Click button above to send:

[William Terrell]

What do you think of amnesty for illegals?

About the same as I think of any blanket amnesty for any group of breakers of the common law. One of the reasons people gather together into a nation is security from invaders. One of the prime mandates for government is to protect the people and destructive influences on their society from invaders.

Not only is this in the ancient common law, but it predates it. To give amnesty to such people that invade our country without our permission and without our leave is to break the foundational spirit of our system of law and encourage more invasion.

Our only real option is a long process of identifying them, apprehending them and summarily escorting out of this country in the cheapest way possible. Discourage the reason they come here by making their employment a criminal offence and agressively track down and prosecute any individual or business that uses them.

I would also station a rollover detachment of National Guard, with regular military advisors, for the states that border Mexico on that border. I would make weekend warrior duty consistent with that task, with orders to apprehend if possible and, if necesary to stop them from entering, shoot to wound, if possible, to kill if necessary.

I would post the details of those orders in Spanish at regular intervals along the borders of those states, with the caveat that, if wounded, medical attention will not be had in the United States but in the country of origin. If the wound will prove fatal before medical attention is reached, that would be just too bad.

[Sabertooth]

Who knows.But he's more than likely a spook sent here to dispirit Freepers.Engaging him is a waste of time,which is what he wants.

What he and a few others want is for people to lose their cool and engage in a flame war (discouraging newcomers from posting), maybe get suspended or banned, and possibly get a productive thread deleted.

They've had fair success this week.

The majority is against Amnesty. There's no reason for those in the majority not to be calm, the truth and the votes are on our side.

[Sabertooth]

I'm definitely against amnesty. It's a very silly idea---for one ---that pretty much eliminates their jobs since they come to do the jobs no Americans will do and for less than minimum wage. Their employers will just have to start over finding more illegals then and the former illegals end up on one or many government handout programs ---like the last batch.

In the immortal words of my ex wife...

"Don't...

give...

me...

logic!"

[flamefront]

Great tape - shine a light on the border!

[gunshy]

here's one from FR