AMNESTY FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS? (a question for Freepers)

August 22nd, 2002 | Sabertooth

[Sabertooth]

This is a vanity post, let's get that straight from the start.

Perhaps the most vain aspect of it is the conceit that it might stay on topic, but I'm going to give it a whirl.

One of the more contentious species of threads encountered on Free Republic are those dealing with the subject of America's immigration policy, particularly with regard to the Illegal Aliens currently in our country. According a range of reasonable sources, the estimates of their numbers here currently here range from six to thirteen million. Whatever the actual count, there are quite a few people now in violation of American immigration law.

One subtopic that inevitably arises is the question of Amnesty:

Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?

That's the question I'd like to put forward to the members of Free Republic.

Almost as inevitably on threads dealing with this subject, flame wars erupt. It's not my purpose to instigate another round of that, they're rather predictable. So I'd like to ask that your comments, if you're inclined to share them, focus on the big picture of American immigration policy, with particular attention to the subject of Amnesty. I'm not interested in the stock and gratuitous divisiveness of race-baiting or referring to the President as "Jorge," or anything of that nature from any quarter. It achieves nothing, it's sulphurous methane heat with no light shed.

I'd also like to avoid ad hominem ambushes. I'm genuinely interested in learning the collective feelings of Free Republic members on this subject. If you're gonna post, I'd like to ask that you ante up with your opinion on the question at hand before engaging the discussion with others. No taking potshots from the obscurity of the sidelines. I'll post my opinion below at #1.

Fair enough?

So, once again, here's the question:

Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?

[Torie]

Is your main beef that illegals work too hard? There is an intelligent middle ground here, but it will not be found on this forum. Folks simply feel too threatened. I take a longer view, and believe that whatever the nuances of policy, in the end it will not matter too much (other than beach homes will get even more pricier as the population expands). This nation, our nation, will do well irrespective. But I understand and appreciate that that is not a popular position around here. So be it.

[Sabertooth]

Yep, as usual you see what you want to see. Nice try Saber.The poster in question was asked to point out all of the "open borders" types he said were here. I then ask him to start with me and any posts I had made regarding "open borders".

I guess you're right, I didn't see him accuse you of being "open borders."

Got a link?

[healey22]

Hell no. I used to vote for a particular candidate for a varity of reasons, but from now on my vote will be based on a politicians view of this massive illegal and legal immigration which is going to destroy this country. This will be my litmus test for which candidate will earn my vote.

[jwalsh07]

	FAMILIES			RECIPIENTS
	AFDC Aug-96	TANF Sep-01	% change	AFDC Aug-96	TANF Sep-01	% change
U.S. Totals	4,408,508	2,102,608	-52.3%	12,242,125	5,343,212	-56.4%
Alabama	41,032	18,195	-55.7%	100,662	43,180	-57.1%
Alaska	12,159	5,637	-53.6%	35,544	16,322	-54.1%
Arizona	62,404	36,497	-41.5%	169,442	91,245	-46.1%
Arkansas	22,069	11,906	-46.1%	56,343	27,722	-50.8%
California	880,378	459,736	-47.8%	2,581,948	1,163,839	-54.9%
Colorado	34,486	10,855	-68.5%	95,788	27,815	-71.0%
Connecticut	57,326	25,692	-55.2%	159,246	59,610	-62.6%
Delaware	10,585	5,476	-48.3%	23,654	12,433	-47.4%
Dist. of Col.	25,350	16,291	-35.7%	69,292	43,048	-37.9%
Florida	200,922	59,183	-70.5%	533,801	125,529	-76.5%
Georgia	123,329	51,482	-58.3%	330,302	122,051	-63.0%
Guam	2,243	3,061	36.5%	8,314	10,588	27.4%
Hawaii	21,894	12,244	-44.1%	66,482	34,128	-48.7%
Idaho	8,607	1,286	-85.1%	21,780	2,223	-89.8%
Illinois	220,297	55,679	-74.7%	642,644	161,318	-74.9%
Indiana	51,437	45,230	-12.1%	142,604	126,965	-11.0%
Iowa	31,579	20,775	-34.2%	86,146	56,030	-35.0%
Kansas	23,790	13,647	-42.6%	63,783	34,761	-45.5%
Kentucky	71,264	35,553	-50.1%	172,193	80,120	-53.5%
Louisiana	67,467	24,159	-64.2%	228,115	62,199	-72.7%
Maine	20,007	9,418	-52.9%	53,873	25,419	-52.8%
Maryland	70,665	27,207	-61.5%	194,127	66,545	-65.7%
Massachusetts	84,700	44,342	-47.6%	226,030	99,247	-56.1%
Michigan	169,997	74,081	-56.4%	502,354	201,783	-59.8%
Minnesota	57,741	39,893	-30.9%	169,744	116,288	-31.5%
Mississippi	46,428	16,835	-63.7%	123,828	38,715	-68.7%
Missouri	80,123	45,185	-43.6%	222,820	119,858	-46.2%
Montana	10,114	5,225	-48.3%	29,130	14,752	-49.4%
Nebraska	14,435	9,795	-32.1%	39,228	24,344	-37.9%
Nevada	13,712	8,547	-37.7%	34,261	23,202	-32.3%
New Hampshire	9,100	5,786	-36.4%	22,937	13,788	-39.9%
New Jersey	101,704	43,380	-57.3%	275,637	107,991	-60.8%
New Mexico	33,353	17,438	-47.7%	99,661	49,783	-50.0%
New York	418,338	212,581	-49.2%	1,143,962	554,702	-51.5%
North Carolina	110,060	42,692	-61.2%	267,326	91,629	-65.7%
North Dakota	4,773	3,150	-34.0%	13,146	9,281	-29.4%
Ohio	204,240	82,946	-59.4%	549,312	190,459	-65.3%
Oklahoma	35,986	14,157	-60.7%	96,201	34,363	-64.3%
Oregon	29,917	20,010	-33.1%	78,419	45,752	-41.7%
Pennsylvania	186,342	81,933	-56.0%	531,059	212,040	-60.1%
Puerto Rico	49,871	25,024	-49.8%	151,023	71,614	-52.6%
Rhode Island	20,670	14,778	-28.5%	56,560	40,243	-28.8%
South Carolina	44,060	18,308	-58.4%	114,273	44,230	-61.3%
South Dakota	5,829	2,706	-53.6%	15,896	6,376	-59.9%
Tennessee	97,187	61,583	-36.6%	254,818	160,664	-36.9%
Texas	243,504	132,292	-45.7%	649,018	351,130	-45.9%
Utah	14,221	7,492	-47.3%	39,073	21,907	-43.9%
Vermont	8,765	5,165	-41.1%	24,331	15,312	-37.1%
Virgin Islands	1,371	664	-51.6%	4,898	2,376	-51.5%
Virginia	61,905	29,238	-52.8%	152,845	65,103	-57.4%
Washington	97,492	53,190	-45.4%	268,927	137,371	-48.9%
West Virginia	37,044	15,831	-57.3%	89,039	41,905	-52.9%
Wisconsin	51,924	18,674	-64.0%	148,888	43,031	-71.1%
Wyoming	4,312	478	-88.9%	11,398	883	-92.3%
ACF/OPRE/DDCA, 2/27/02

Last Updated on 2/27/02
By ACF

[Sabertooth]

Where are my personal attacks?

Sorry if I was unclear...

You'd said: "I can both oppose an issue while at the same time vigorously oppose the tactics of others that share the same opposition."

And I said: "Your own single-mindedness in that is outta step on this thread. The personal attacks have been almost non-existent."

What I meant is that the tactics you seek to vigorously oppose haven't been evident on this thread.

[FreedomFriend]

I think that Advogado is a "Hispanic", and possibly a lawyer. He is gleeful about whites becoming a minority in America and, hence, he'll support any and all illegal immigration, 245i, etc. His goal is to subvert the white man to a Mexican culture. It should be obvious with his smoke and mirrors "diversity" garbage.

[jwalsh07]

Any comment on your erroneous claim regarding welfare?

[For_God_and_Country]

No amnesty for illegals ever. We reward people in this country, way too much for breaking the law....

[Torie]

Do you have any inclination to deceny in flagging the poster that you are flaming? Just a thought.

[Texasforever]

Don't hold your breath.

[PRND21]

Young adults are being kept out of the workforce.

Got a link? ;)
I see Help Wanted signs often in L.A. and SoCal.

...and legal citizens are going on welfare or are living at home late in life, if not married.

And that's the fault of a minimum wage worker? Wow.

[FreedomFriend]

You know good and well that you do not want to do what it takes to remove this problem. Your own statement that you couldn't go along with every provision is evidence of that.

[Torie]

There are a lot of burgers to flip in this country. That is why so many folks look so hideously fat. If that trend continues, I may slip over the median line in good looks. :) This is a trash post John. I just could not help myself.

[Texasforever]

Careful you are poisoning a "civil" thread. Sorry Saber I will not post further but I still question why you posted it in the first place.

[FreedomFriend]

I don't think so. There are forces at work to undermine American Sovereignty, and a globalist systme of government is where we appear to be headed, ala the Bible.

[nopardons]

You want to see it, go reread this entire thread. Have you becime a moderator ? If so, then say so. If not, go do your own scut work ! :-)

[FreedomFriend]

You're very sympathetic to illegal immigration. Don't deny it. You never go far enough in what needs to be done, and you always claim that real solutions are unworkable. Why? Because you don't really want the problem solved.

[PRND21]

Never mind. I see you are fighting on several fronts. As you were.

[Texasforever]

You know good and well that you do not want to do what it takes to remove this problem. Your own statement that you couldn't go along with every provision is evidence of that.,

That's what I thought. Drag your knuckles out of here.

[FreedomFriend]

Thank You, Joe.