AMNESTY FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS? (a question for Freepers)

August 22nd, 2002 | Sabertooth

[Sabertooth]

This is a vanity post, let's get that straight from the start.

Perhaps the most vain aspect of it is the conceit that it might stay on topic, but I'm going to give it a whirl.

One of the more contentious species of threads encountered on Free Republic are those dealing with the subject of America's immigration policy, particularly with regard to the Illegal Aliens currently in our country. According a range of reasonable sources, the estimates of their numbers here currently here range from six to thirteen million. Whatever the actual count, there are quite a few people now in violation of American immigration law.

One subtopic that inevitably arises is the question of Amnesty:

Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?

That's the question I'd like to put forward to the members of Free Republic.

Almost as inevitably on threads dealing with this subject, flame wars erupt. It's not my purpose to instigate another round of that, they're rather predictable. So I'd like to ask that your comments, if you're inclined to share them, focus on the big picture of American immigration policy, with particular attention to the subject of Amnesty. I'm not interested in the stock and gratuitous divisiveness of race-baiting or referring to the President as "Jorge," or anything of that nature from any quarter. It achieves nothing, it's sulphurous methane heat with no light shed.

I'd also like to avoid ad hominem ambushes. I'm genuinely interested in learning the collective feelings of Free Republic members on this subject. If you're gonna post, I'd like to ask that you ante up with your opinion on the question at hand before engaging the discussion with others. No taking potshots from the obscurity of the sidelines. I'll post my opinion below at #1.

Fair enough?

So, once again, here's the question:

Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?

[hchutch]

And how many of those who support this bill will vote differently based on those four provisions?

How many will mobilize and vote down people who would strike those positons OUT of this bill?

THAT is what it comes down to. If you don't have enough people willing to cross over to defeat a Congressman based on this issue alone, particularly those four provisions, I don't see how you will force this bill through. In fact, I bet it hasn't even left committee, has it?

So it really would come down to whether you could convince enough people to dump a rather conservative member of the House of Representatives (the current Chairman of the Judiciary Committee, Jim Sensenbrenner) to get a new chairman who might bring it up.

If you think you can pull that off, take your best shot. Seeing how Buchanan did, though, I don't think you have the votes amone American CITIZENS to do that, and I'll work to make sure it stays that way.

In other words, I'm calling YOUR bluff.

[Twodees]

No amnesty for illegals. All illegals should be deported and refused anyu opportunity to reapply for immigration. I don't care if they're W's brush beaters for quail hunts.

[rintense]

This is how it should be. Excellent thread!

[hchutch]

Well, if you looked at Post 145, you'd notice I support the Gekas bill's authorization and funding for 8,000 additional Border Patrol agents over eight years, although I wouldn't mind boosting that total to 16,000 (2,000 per year), while also doubling the number of INS investigators that would be authorized (500 per year, total of 4,000 as opposed to 2,000).

That would be a pretty good start in securing the border, don't you think?

And 4,000 more investigators means we can track down a lot more businesses that would hire illegals after a partial amnesty, wouldn't it?

Of course, we'd have to work pretty hard to make sure that all of that authorized strength would be funded every year, but I'd be willing to fight alongside you on that front.

I'll back that full-tilt.

[usadave]

Unfortunately, I don't see that happening unless we invade Mexico and opt to either rule it as a conquered province for a couple decades or to simply replace the current government with one more aligned with our interests.

Best idea I've heard so far in dealing with illegal immigration from Mexico. In the long run, this plan could turn out to be less expensive and less troublesome for the U.S. than it would be to hire and deploy tens or hundreds of thousands of Border Patrol personnel indefinately on our southern border to guard against illegal immigration.

[4Freedom]

Show me where you've read that any Republican politicians are calling for the same 4 provisions you don't like to be striken from the bill.

There may be enough votes in the Republican controlled House to pass it as is.

Who of any consequence agrees with you?

[MeneMeneTekelUpharsin]

Teaching Math in 2010: El hachero vende un camion carga por $100. La cuesta de production es.............

El leñero vende un camion de madera por $100. El costo de producción es.............

ROFL....that is one of the best I've ever seen. I corrected the Spanish for you to make it a little better. Boy, do you have a point there.

[hchutch]

If that is the case, then why isn't it being rushed through the committee process? Who is challenging Sensenbrenner over not bringing it up in committee or moving it to the House floor?

C'mon, can't have it both ways. A number of Republicans went FOR an extension of 245(i), if I'm not mistaken. How many of those who voter FOR that bill did you beat onthe basis of that single vote back in March?

[gubamyster]

No amnesty for illegals
No 245(i)
No drivers’ licenses for illegals
No in-state tuitions for illegals
No social services for illegals

- Increased border patrol, including use of the military at the borders until the border patrol and INS can handle the situation.
- Coordinated efforts between local law enforcement as well as other government agencies and the INS to report & deport illegals as they come in contact with them in the line of duty.
- Severe penalties for and prosecution of employers of illegals.
- A moratorium on immigration until the INS can get a system in place to track all visa holders.
- Controlled immigration upon resumption after tracking system in place.

[SwordofTruth]

Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?

They should all be deported immediately. Why do they think they are above our laws?

[Sabertooth]

Though, as I explained to another freeper, you'd might be amazed how much support there is in the latino community for immigration moratoriums, opposition to amnesties, support for quotas and other limits.

A thread along these lines would be very worthwhile, John.

Are there other Latino Freepers with whom you've discussed this?

A side note: I dated an El Salvodoran woman a couple of years ago, a legal immigrant, who was doing everything right to naturalize. But she spoke through clenched teeth on Illegals.

Recall that Calif. Prop 187 passed with majority latino support (If memory serves, the final tally was 55% in favor). It's just that the loud mouths draw all the ink and airtime -- and media sympathy.

Actually, the Latino numbers started out there in the Spring of '94, but went into the tank as the Democrats demagogued the GOP and Wilson as being anti-immigrant and racist. The betrayals of Jack Kemp and Bill Bennett during that campaign gave the Dems unwarranted credibility. I think they ended up aroun 28%.

I'll reserve comment at this time about President Bush's statements about #187, during his first run for governor of Texas.

[SwordofTruth]

And you're hearing this from a latino.

Wow, a Latino with a Chinese screen name. Who would have thunk it?

[FITZ]

If those currently illegaly in the country, but who are working and who have committed no other crimes than illegal entry and who have not received any welfare are instead tracked into a guest worker program with no chance of citizenship, I'll take that deal.

I'd even give the chance of citizenship to temporary workers if they learned our language and studied the Constitution. Most of the illegals actually come here with the intention of returning to their homes at some point. A bracero-type program might work better than trying to turn them all legal when it's not what they originally came here to be. I think most of the braceros in the 50's and 60's did go back. At any rate immigration was much much better controlled then.

[Twodees]

You're not going to subject us to 10 more posts about your brother's irrelevant opinions on this thread, like you did the last one, are you?

Next they'll be dragging in the experiences of their sister's cat's grandmother.

[Snow Bunny]

NO amnesty ever.Never ever.

[hchutch]

Perhaps, but I'd put them at the end of the line.

I like your suggstion about making them learn English and studying the Constitution, too.

[VA Advogado]

Obviously you must benefit financially or in some way or the other, but the rest of us obviously don't.

Not directly, but we all benefit when we open the borders to this wonderful land to people who love this country so much they want to make it their home.

[FITZ]

Of course with a bracero or other temporary worker program, they wouldn't be law-breaking by being here. I wouldn't say anyone who breaks the law should get moved to the front of the line, but if there really are certains jobs we need them to do, they can be here legally and temporarily.

[Twodees]

we all benefit when we open the borders to this wonderful land to people who love this country so much they want to make it their home.

No, we don't. Open borders allow those who want to destroy us to waltz in along with those who want to make this their home. There is no reason in the world for us to allow anyone who wants to come here to immigrate. Open borders are a disaster, no matter what sort of flowery rhetoric is attached to them. Promoting open borders in time of war is treason, too. Allowing enemy operatives to come and go as they please is definitely giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

[SwordofTruth]

Not directly, but we all benefit when we open the borders to this wonderful land to people who love this country so much they want to make it their home.

I would suspect most illegal aliens don't care too much about this land, but rather the money they can get here through work, welfare, and free education and hospital visits for their kids. Most are not coming here because they love this country, but rather they are coming here for the handouts we offer them. If they truly loved this country they wouldn't be trying to sneak across the border. They would come here the legal way only.