No.
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Posted on 08/22/2002 7:04:53 AM PDT by Sabertooth
This is a vanity post, let's get that straight from the start.
Perhaps the most vain aspect of it is the conceit that it might stay on topic, but I'm going to give it a whirl.
One of the more contentious species of threads encountered on Free Republic are those dealing with the subject of America's immigration policy, particularly with regard to the Illegal Aliens currently in our country. According a range of reasonable sources, the estimates of their numbers here currently here range from six to thirteen million. Whatever the actual count, there are quite a few people now in violation of American immigration law.
One subtopic that inevitably arises is the question of Amnesty:
Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?
That's the question I'd like to put forward to the members of Free Republic.
Almost as inevitably on threads dealing with this subject, flame wars erupt. It's not my purpose to instigate another round of that, they're rather predictable. So I'd like to ask that your comments, if you're inclined to share them, focus on the big picture of American immigration policy, with particular attention to the subject of Amnesty. I'm not interested in the stock and gratuitous divisiveness of race-baiting or referring to the President as "Jorge," or anything of that nature from any quarter. It achieves nothing, it's sulphurous methane heat with no light shed.
I'd also like to avoid ad hominem ambushes. I'm genuinely interested in learning the collective feelings of Free Republic members on this subject. If you're gonna post, I'd like to ask that you ante up with your opinion on the question at hand before engaging the discussion with others. No taking potshots from the obscurity of the sidelines. I'll post my opinion below at #1.
Fair enough?
So, once again, here's the question:
Should all or some portion of the Illegal Aliens be granted an Amnesty and be thereby allowed to change their status and acquire legal residence in the United States?
Hchutch, much as you try to avoid it, you are in fact FOR illegal immigration. Your above makes this painfully clear. Like Mr. Ziglar you begin with an intentionally defeatist “false” premise that nothing can be done about deporting illegals and proceed to back into your open borders agenda.
Though you prefaced your remarks with “mass”, there is certainly much that can be done about illegal immigration over time that does not require a door to door search for them. But hey why look at practical solutions right?
And doesn’t your position that we can’t deport them beg the question as to why you would ever want to exacerbate the crisis of illegal immigration with more Amnesties? As usual, your arguments are all over the board and in a constant state of conflict.
You and like-minded Neo-Cons (con being an apt term) would be better served to note how many Freepers here have gone on record as saying they will no longer vote for a party or candidate that encourages illegal immigration. If you are into defeatism, I suggest you examine THAT because if the GOP wishes to remain relevant in the future they are well advised to start listening to what MOST Americans are saying about issues like immigration and trade.
I do not see how throwing out hard-working people who are working - even if they entered illegally - helps things out. As a conservative, I consider those "Illegals" to be far better for this country than the hucksters who are demanding reparations for slavery.
So, let's just forget about our laws and our sovereignty--right? Is your point that if anyone from around the world wants to come to America to get a job the Citizens of this nation have no right to insist that our ELECTED Officials halt this practice? If so, I guess I suffer under the delusion that it is “We The People”, through our representative form of democracy, that determine what our immigration policies are. Silly Me!
And just what is this BS about Hard Work? The “REAL” Hard Work jobs are those that require one to use their mind--not their back. Yet, what we continually see with illegal aliens is that they drop out of school at an early age, normally well before high school and proceed to do menial work for businesses that operate on dirt-cheap “illegal” labor. Is this your definition of Hard Work and a healthy trend for America?
America needs SKILLED, EDUCATED workers—not more unskilled labor from 3rd world countries that have a culture and value set vastly different than ours…And we certainly don’t need this at a rate of a million or more a year! Wake Up.
RATHER, YOUR WHOLE QUESTION SHOULD BE RESTRICTED AND DIRECTLY TO ONLY THOSE IN AMERICA WHO ENTERED USA TERRITORY IN A LEGAL FASHION, THROUGH THE CORRECT I.N.S. PAPERWORK AND OTHER PROCEDURES.
I'll take their vote as the final say on this issue (regarding those who entered in a different fashion, i.e. illegally, out of line and breaking the rules).
These legal immigrants that I have encountered, almost to a person, would boot every illegal immigrant back to the end of the line from whence he or she originated, and for good, indignant and justified reasons.
No.
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Take a look at the squalor in Mexico. Take a look at the lack of assimilation with most Illegals in this country. Take a look at what is happening in our major cities, particularly in the Southwest, and then think long and hard about what you just said. There ARE “differences” in Cultures and when a group of immigrants come to America in staggering numbers, set up their own Closed Eco-System fueled by our tax dollars and refuse to learn English much less follow our laws and respect our customs WE ARE FLIRTING WITH DIASTER. Is common sense an alien concept with you?
Could very well be Joe -- the afore mentioned "best case scenario" for the minions of the 'New World Order' might necessitate a defense of U.S. liberty and sovereignty in the great American tradition of Nathan Hale, Daniel Boone, and Audie Murphy.
The idea of enforcing employer sanctions is a sound one that needs to be aggressively pursued.
As for a long-term solution to the illegal immigration issue, I don't see it happening on a "fortify the border" basis for the following reasons:
The best deterrent to illegal immigration is to make it worth the potential immigrant's while to stay in Mexico.
Unfortunately, I don't see that happening unless we invade Mexico and opt to either rule it as a conquered province for a couple decades or to simply replace the current government with one more aligned with our interests. The good news of this idea is that our southern land frontier would be greatly shortened. The bad news is that we'd damn near double our seaward frontier.
Which of course explains why Hispanics as a group vote overwhelmingly for the Democratic Party. LOL. And NO, I don't think Bush has one iota of common sense on this issue.
What "differences" in their culture make them unfit for here? I'd like that explained.
Glad you asked. They (Mexicans) come from a culture that is deeply rooted in a centuries old primitive caste system of political and social corruption that makes it inherently difficult for most to comprehend our rule of law, system of governance and values. It doesn't help that many of these immigrants were raised to despise America or that the subversive multiculturalist element in America have encouraged them not assimilate into our country.
Sorry, if this dose of reality disturbs your little fantasy world. Perhaps you should ponder on why some countries thrive in this world while others are mired in intractable 3rd world conditions. Do you have any way of explaining this if culture is not relevant?
You forgot to add take the factory jobs that remain, the construction jobs, airport screening, etc. They are taking jobs that Americans can no longer get.
Offering so much to them has opened the floodgates, it sends out the signal to third world countries that all they have to do is sneak over the border and all their needs will be met for free. Now as a result of this policy, there are millions of them here who we will have to support forever, along with all their relatives who can come too. Why should anyone apply for legal citizenship now that they don't have to? Why should the lawbreakers get a free pass and go to the front of the line ahead of those who apply legally?
The only way to solve this problem is employer sanctions, huge fines for those who hire illegal aliens, also revocation of the "anchor baby" law, and mass deportation to follow. The President should announce to the nation that it is time for those who are here illegally to go home and wait their turn, then apply for legal entry. Let the INS do their job.
This would open up millions of jobs for many of those American welfare recipients who should be working and don't work because they don't have to. The nanny nation should be a thing of the past, we can't afford it anymore.
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