Posted on 08/21/2002 7:35:39 AM PDT by xsysmgr
Still, they are not to be trusted.
(He was never charged with a crime, but he was investigated, went before Congress, and the shooting was ruled Constitutional
You have a real problem with facts. Lon Horiuchi was charged in Idaho State court with manslaughter. The trial never occured because the Feds claimed soveriegn immunity.
The U.S. Marshals were not on the Weaver’s property,
Lie.
(I mean the BATF agents that successfully arrested Randy initial with no problems for a crime he did in fact commit)
Were you on the Jury? They felt differently. Weaver was acquited on the gun charge.
Here is a hint, if police officers are aiming guns at you or attempting to place you under arrest, and if you refuse, or shoot at them, you are waving your right to a trial and placing yourself in immediate danger.)
Familiarize yourself with US. v Cruikshank. The killing of Marshall Dugan was ruled justifiable by the Jury.
Government agents are no different than their fellow citizens
Sure they are. They have 'sovereign immunity' from prosecution for their illegal actions.
Ruby Ridge was tragic, but it is important not to lose sight of the fact that the law enforcement officers were there doing their jobs
So were the guards at Dachau.
L
Good use of name calling to prove your points (newbie, troll). It was equally impressive when I responded to all of your points, but you didn't respond to mine other than to call me a liar (the shot out was not on the Weaver's land, but the Marshalls previously were. I was not trying to lie, I was simply pointing out that the gun fight did not involve trespassing.) I will be glad to let the tread die, I was only responding to your reply because you spoke of my multitude of errors, and I wanted to clarify my statements so that you would understand what I meant. I am not interested in getting into a name calling match. If you wish to believe your government is a monsterous organization seeking to kill its citizens for no reason, you have that right.
I support our country's law enforcement agencies that are working to prevent its citizens from being murdered by gang members carrying sawed-off shotguns, white supremacists blowing up gay bars, children being kidnapped from bording schools, and dams being blow up to damage cities and not out power stations(which are the issue involved in this case).
Hey noob....
If you are going to accuse someone of something, at least ping the person who CALLED you a troll....
that would be me and yes you are STILL a troll.
Why was Weaver even targeted?
I agree these people were government hating kooks, but I also think shooting the kid and the wife was out of line.
The feebs burn you for corruption or civil rights violations?
I do not agree with how the FBI conducted themselves, but I wouldn't be in a big hurry to cite the 9th circuit(the most liberal, and overturned court in the U.S.)as my main foundation for my argument.
Lurker,
I Apologize for mistakenly thinking you were an immature name caller. I am not use to this forum, and will be more careful in the future.
He was targeted because he was associating with criminal groups. The Aryan Nations was a meeting point for many white supremacist groups such as the KKK, the National Alliance, and smaller groups such as the Order. The Order was inspired by William Pierce's (of the National Alliance) the 'Turner Diaries' (as Timothy McVeigh would later be). The committed a series of crimes including a multi-million dollar armored car robbery. Randy Weaver hung around with these groups and was good friends with Butler (the Aryan Nations preacher) when he was arrested for attempting to conduct a terrorist attack against a gay bar (shortly before Weaver was arrested). The government informat was investigating the Aryan Nations, and although Weaver was not an offical member, he had deep ties to the group. He met with a government informat and spoke of starting a 'patriot' group similar to the Order.
The informant wanted Weaver to introduce him to one of Weaver's contacts in the KKK of a different state that was involved in a number of bank robberies (that is where the bank robbery connection got mix in with the FBI intelligence report). After the informant was exposed, they asked Weaver to make the introduction to the Klansman in exchange for dropping the gun sell charges Weaver had previously committed. Weaver refused, was arrested, didn't attend his court date (whether changed or not), and then made threats against anyone that might attempt to arrest him.
Adios Pal.
You need to read your history of these two events.
And get some professional help, you have issues.
Tell us more about the "Informant". How much and for how long was he being paid? Had he any other 'information' on any of the Arian, Order, KKK kooks other than Weaver?
Bottom line --- can we even trust what he said? Or was it possibly the local ATF folks looking to justify expenses by at least making one score?
That said, the gun charge was BS and the federal response was brutal and illegal.
Yes, they do have me pegged. I am ready to admit it now. I am as a matter of fact, a troll, a newbie, and a noob. However, I am not one of those types of trolls that live in caves; I am one of those plastic toys with fuzzy hair. I am also a new B, I am neither an uppercase "B" nor a lower case "b", I am a new kind of 'B' that does not yet have a graphical representation. I am also willing to admit to being a noob. I am a door knob as a matter of fact. I am sorry I attempted to challenge liberal and conspiracy theories with facts taken from sources other than liberal news sources or conspiracal websites, when in fact I am a door noob, plastic toy, and new type of letter. They had me pegged all of the time. I am unable to debate this matter any further, because I am not experienced at coming up with such creative names to call another person.
Touche
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