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To: discostu
Then, they were expected to become part of America, which included speaking our language, knowing our history and respecting our traditions.

Of course any one that thinks this is living in complete ignorance of American history.
Thank you Professor Foner. Will you next quote directly from Prof Zinn? (Eric Foner is a communist prof at Columbia who used to run the AHA and Zinn is a contributor to the Nation who wrote the most used textbook in America History. Both have made it their lifes work to revise American history to the specifications of the CPUSA.)

How is it that all the big cities in America developed these enclaves with names like: Little Italy, Chinatown, Little Havana, etc. The simple fact is the first generation of imigrants, since the original colonists that didn't mingle with the native population, have ALWAYS clustered together with their own kind.

1. The origional colonists were not immigrants, but colonists who were creating a new country. They did not want to join the Indian Nations. They wanted to take their land. Thank you for making a comparison that people on your side normally abhor: Third world immigrants are colonizing America.

2. It is undeniable that immigrants generally chose to live to gether in American cities or to go off to the same general areas of the frontier. However, most immigrants were part of distinct waves and we had a real fragmentation. Scots, Italians, Poles, Greeks, Swedes, etc were distinct groups. There was little cohesion between these groups and eventially all did become Americans. It took time and assimilation was sped up by the fact that immigration was always curtaled after a few years and because immigrants were expected to assimilate.

Never before in our history have we had so many immigrants who speak the same language. Moreover, we have never had immigrants from a neighboring country who believe that they are entitled to the land.

The closest we came were with the Irish and German immigrants from the 1840's to 1924. In both cases we had a large number of immigrants comming over generations. Both also came from countries that had real problems with Great Britain and these carried over to their relations to American culture, which was predominantly British.
This had serious reprocussions. It took a century to assimilate the Irish and Germans. Frankly, we also had loyalty issues during our wars. These occured right from the start with the San Patricos, who were Irish immigrants who defected to Mexico during the Mexican War. During the Civil War, we had the largest riots in American history with the Draft riots, which were essentially ethnic affairs. (Irish vs everyone else in NYC).
During World War 1 and 2 we had serious sabotage of teh war effort by Irish and German unions and even Americans who ended up volunteering to fight for the Germans.

I would also note that contrary to the line given by neocons and the left, there were real costs to America from the last great wave of immigration (1880-1924). We saw the importation of socialism to America. We saw the Northeast become bastions of the left, primarily due to a demographic change.
Frankly it was not until the 1970's that Irish and German America voted like other white Americans.

If the country is to survive, we need to assimilate all immigrants. To do this we must ensure assimilation by ending multi-culturalism, and see immigrant communities are not insular. We need to curtail future immigration so that we have manageable numbers.
Having 34 million immigrants (plus an indetermined number of illegals) and another million legal immigrants per year is simply unsustanable if we want to keep an American political culture even remotly resembling that of our founding.

Ron
PS. Before you start calling me a WASP nativist, please note that I am a first Generation America of Jewish decent. The facts speak for themselves. Go pick up Alien Nation by Peter Brimlow.

46 posted on 08/15/2002 6:37:27 PM PDT by rmlew
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To: rmlew
Or, for a web version of Brimelow's book, one should review www.vdare.com
55 posted on 08/15/2002 9:31:21 PM PDT by Phillip Augustus
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To: rmlew
So the problem is that they all speak Spanish? As someone who's lived the last 25 years in the middle of La Reconquista let me tell you: if La Raza manages to take over our country it's because we're pathetic and didn't deserve to live.

You forgot about the Italian and Sicilian immigration during the same period, that's important, without that mass immigration we lose an entire genre (considered to be a true American genre) of movie. That's an important influx to me because my grandmother (3rd generation American of German extraction) met Al Capone (2nd generation American of Italian extraction).

Communism got introduced in that period because, at the time, Marx was right. The worker was treated like crap and paid next to nothing. Work place death from physical abuse and unsafe conditions was common place. Luckily capitalism showed why it's the best, we adapted. The companies (largely spearheaded by Ford) learned you could actually turn a profit and treat your workers well at the same time (as Ford learned, well paid workers and employee discounts creates a customer base, which gets your product seen and provides free advertising). The only reason the immigrant population was involved in the communist movement was because they were the primary source of cheap (ie abused, at that time) labor. Once they started getting treated like humanbeing communism experienced it's first big fizzle.

The north east became a bastion of the left because of the colleges. Communism has always been popular with the over educated faux elite. Where all all the ivy league colleges? This actually happened before the big immigration boom, the over educated fell in love with Marx immediately. Really even before Marx the colleges of the east had serious tendencies towards what we now call liberalism, it just didn't have a name until Marx showed up. Blaming the immigrants for this is stupid.

Again if our culture can't handle it we're too stupid to live. Better find smarter numbers. What's 34 million immigrants? It's 1.8 of the population. According to some a million people a year move to LA (nobody says how many flee, what a crappy city). If they can handle it we can handle it. most of the Mexican immigrants don't believe their entitles to anything. La Raza is mostly stupid college kids, always has been. Again you're confusing over educated morons (mostly Americans) with immigrants. I used to work for a 1st generation Mexican-American, I asked him about La Raza, he laughed and said it was a great way to get laid.

Why should we keep a political culture like our founding fathers? It's a different world. They built our Constitution with the ability to be ammended (or even scrapped and rewritten from scratch) for a reason. They new the world would change and the nation would have to change with it. We proved a hundred years ago with the first influx of immigrants that our strength was our adaptability. The tree that cannot bend in the wind will break. Putting unreasonable demands on a new immigrant population that they behave differently from all other immigrant populations is pointless. Might as well demand day not be bright and hot. Let things run their natural course. That's what's going to happen anyway, the only question is how much you embarass yourself saying the sky is falling when it's not.
81 posted on 08/16/2002 9:11:57 AM PDT by discostu
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