[rmlew]

What I won't support is picking on the Mexicans because some people are paranoid freaks.
How about treating them differently because immigration from a neihboring country at the behest of its government can be veiwed as an invasion in historical terms?

Nice numbers. How do they compare with your own group the Jews?
European Jews whose families immigrated 100 years ago, have to a large degree not assimilated. They view Judaism as being seperate from America and as supporting socialist ideals.
Jews who came here escaping communism tended to hate socialism and were far more willing to assimilate.
Jews who came here to escape Arab oppression also tended to distance themselves from their anti-American stances of some Jews.

I think the issues is one of history and numbers. There was a huge migration from 1880-1924, which allowed Jews to become insulated. Many of them were tainted by socialist anti-Czarism and a tendency to view American conservatives as teh equivalent of slavophiles. This idiocy has basically not abated for many.
On the other hand, more Jews under 35 voted for Bush tan for Gore, despite Gore's puppet Lieberman.

I understand the importance of national unification holidays. I don't think Columbus Day is one. It's just a day off to me, one I never had because AZ had gotten rid of it before I got the kind of job where you get those days of. The national unification holidays are Memorial Day, Independance Day and Armestice Day (when we had the individual president's birthdays off they were good, the current Presidents' Day is nothing more than a white sale at K-Mart). Columbus Day is a day celebrating a guy who didn't land in America proper and wasn't the first European here anyway. As a matter of fact he didn't even prove the world was round because people didn't think it was flat. Pretty much everything you were told in grade shoool about Columbus (and oddly enough all the stuff the Indians down here protest, which is why I laugh at them) is BS
You miss the point. They are destroying the moral legitimacy of America by calling us a genocidal result of Columbus.

35% is still better than the GOP gets with most of the minorities (or semi-minorities), yours and mine (European Catholic) included.
I thought Bush carried the Catholic vote or at least split it in 2000.

OK I can see that, but maybe the ideals of the founders wouldn't get trashed. Communism couldn't last a whole century in Russia and people still dig it.
True, but as an international movement, it died. Communists are runnig away from the term, even as they win elections.

Roman and Greecian slavery weren't like what we had here. It was more like (to steal a term from the commies) the wage slavery we supposedly had here. Their slaves earned money and could eventually buy their freedom, it was a stepping stone to full citizenship which many chose not to go for because they didn't care to take that next step.
Roman citizens who became slaves were treated well. Foreigners were not, especially those captured in war.

No. The Republic fell because of the coroption of the senate. That has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with immigration into Rome. Roman immigration was very complex and layered, the important thing to know is that most immigrants weren't citizens right away and many never became citizens.
I was talking about conquest. Rome had expanded so quickly that it failed to Romanize the conquered. Foreign cults were imported as non-Romans became slaves or simply moved to Rome. All this blew apart the common Republican hertage of Rome and helped weaken the Republic. There were other causes for its collapse, but you can't ignore what was going on here. I will have to go dig up Cicero.

Change doesn't happen right away. You're starting to sound like the people bitching about Bush. You can't just undo 70 years of progressing socialism right after being sworn into office. Niether nation gives the president imperial powers or a magic wand. They've got to work within the system and that's going to take time. If we're lucky and manage to keep getting conservatives in power we'll see some serious change before we die. If we're lucky.
A change in tone would be a nice step. Mexican officials who don't publically claim that there is no border between teh US adn Mexico would be nice. President Fox admitting the EXISTANCE of illigal immigrants would be nice. President Bush talking about our common culture just once would be nice.

Again, I have yet to see any significant way where Mexican immigration is different.
WEll, I gave teh historic precident of America taking over Tejas from the inside in the 1820's to show that immigration from a neighbor into contested lands is qualitatively different than immigration from across teh seas.

[discostu]

See you start off with basic assumption I haven't seen proven and don't accept as true. I'm not buying that this is some stealth invasion without some serious proof, and speaches from Fox aren't proof. We need info coming from these immigrants that they were "sent" for some nefarious reason.

Justify however you want. I don't care. As long as there are minority groups with a higher tendency to vote commie/ democrat than the Mexicans, which there are, then that's not a valid reason to exclude them.

No you're missing the point. A handful of Mexicans on one college campus do not speak for the entire group. and again with their behavior being not unique, and actually excelled in stupidity and anti-American rhetoric by other groups it again is a poor arguement to kick them out.

I can't look at the crap EU is pulling and say that communism as an international movement is dead. Communism as pushed by the Soviet Union is dead. communism as an international movement went into witness relocation and seems to be alive and well and gaining converts under an assumed name.

Roman citizens never became slaves. People born in Rome, who's lineage was also from Rome for many generations, became slaves IF they had never been citizens. Citizenship in Rome, especially near the end of the Republic and into the Empire, had very little to do with where you were born and quite a lot to do with the citizenship status of your parents.

True Rome expanded too quickly to assimilate the new residents (some of whom were citizens, many not). But that wasn't why they stopped being a Republic. The Senate became useless and the emperors took over "to get something done", always something to keep in mind when current leaders start complaining about gridlock, an ineffectual government isn't always a bad thing.

Mexico wants to join the US and Canada as a "real" nation in North America. They're making noise to not be ignored. But all this bloviating by the politicians means nothing without the participation of the people. I've seen no behavior from the Mexican immigrants showing that they're taking over the country. Krushev said he'd bury us, that didn't happen either.

The Tejas example doesn't prove anything about the current situation. At best it shows that it is possible to "invade" a country with immigration. I haven't denied this. More recently the "immigration" of things like Coke and McDonald's into the USSR shows that it can happen well over seas too. All that sharing a border means is that it's easier. Of course we have a longer border with Canada and it's got even fewer defenses, so why aren't we panic stricken about them? They're government's just as nuts. The real question is what's happening now. And what's happening now is nothing to single out the Mexicans over.