Mumps and the MMR vaccine

thisislondon.com ^

[krodriguesdc]

Mumps and the MMR vaccine

Evening Standard editorial comment

Parents have good reason to be concerned about the possibility of a mumps outbreak in London. The epidemiological history of this infectious disease suggests that mumps is unpleasant but hardly ever fatal to children. In rare cases it causes meningitis or encephalitis; it can also cause infertility in boys. Before there was a vaccine for mumps, it tended to kill no more than five people a year.

Yet it is impossible to be certain that half a century of vaccination against the disease will not have weakened our natural immunity to the extent that a renewed outbreak would produce unusually severe symptoms.

This is why the near quadrupling of mumps cases in the capital to 112 in 2001, and the 30 per cent rise in the last quarter over the previous three months, is particularly worrying, given that clinics across the country have been without supplies of the mumps vaccine for up to six months and do not know when they can expect fresh supplies.

The Government will be blamed for creating this situation, and endangering childrens' lives, by insisting that the triple MMR vaccine be used to inoculate children against measles, mumps and rubella, but it is not directly the fault of the Department of Health. The reason why there is such a shortage of mumps vaccine is that not much of it is being manufactured (none to UK licence specifications) and the logical reason for this is that every country in the developed world except Britain has accepted the overwhelming scientific evidence that MMR does not trigger autism in young children. This is not to say that blame should rest with parents who refuse the triple vaccine.

Ever since Dr Andrew Wakefield produced his own variant findings, which suggested a possible link between MMR and autism and bowel disorders, enough anecdotal evidence has emerged that the MMR vaccination appears to coincide with the onset of autism in young children to convince many parents that they must be connected. Pressure is therefore growing to make it the responsibility of the Government to accelerate the production of mumps vaccine and then provide all three vaccinations separately on the NHS. This will be the first major challenge for the new public health minister David Lammy, and perhaps the toughest he will ever have to face.

[TomB]

I other words, you have no evidence, but you'll keep on believing as you do anyway in the face of all the evidence to the contrary.

Yep, that is real "scientific".

[rubbertramp]

In this country of medical brainwashing, it is supposed to be a good thing to have choice. Women have the right to choose the murder of their unborn child. Why is it that women cannot choose not to vaccinate their child with substances that are proven neurotoxins. Substances that are not being removed by pharmacuetical companies despite numerous studies and statistics proving their connection to autism conditions. Instead these companies say they will remove thimersol when they are good and ready. Why should they add any more losses to their bottom line when mothers are pressured into this vaccination anyway? Doctors are overworked and can't read the fine points in this discussion and tell moms not to worry. Meanwhile, your children and grandchildren are at risk for a lifetime in a netherworld. Why? So they might not get measles.

At least give moms a choice. I think they are smart enough not to choose this klinker of a vaccine.

[TomB]

At least give moms a choice. I think they are smart enough not to choose this klinker of a vaccine.

That's a laugh coming from you. Do you STILL maintain that MMR contains mercury?

[GregB]

Vaccinations use mercury as a perservitive. Try to buy an old thermometer.

[TomB]

From the CDC:

" Substantial progress has been made in the effort to reduce thimerosal exposure from vaccines. At this time, all routinely recommended licensed pediatric vaccines that are currently being manufactured for the U.S. market, contain no thimerosal or contain only trace amounts of thimerosal. The vaccines with trace amount of thimerosal licensed to date contain less than 0.5 micrograms of mercury per dose, that is, a given dose of vaccine contains less than 1 part per million."

[Al B.]

You wouldn't recognize real science if it hit you in the face with a baseball bat.

[TomB]

You wouldn't recognize real science if it hit you in the face with a baseball bat.

What to you is "real science"? Newspaper editorials? Because that is about all you have. We posted numerous scientific, peer-reviewed studies, and you just stick your finger in your ears and scream "Naa naa naa, I can't hear you!".

Face it, there is no science on your side. Just fragments of studies taken out of context (post 93 ring a bell?) and black helicopter conspiracy theories.

[Al B.]

We posted numerous scientific, peer-reviewed studies, and you just stick your finger in your ears and scream "Naa naa naa, I can't hear you!".

Actually, we've made progress on this thread, because I got a list out of you that you consider "proof."  I'm really looking forward to reviewing it.

'Course, you've been railing against editorializing thruout this thread and demanding good science.  I'm assuming there are no editorials in this list of "proof" you gave me.  I'm also assuming there are no cohort studies among the epidemiological studies you cite since the National Academy of Sciences has specifically dismissed these types of studies as irrelevant in their review of MMR safety.  I'm also assuming you haven't listed studies done by people with blatant conflicts of interest, monied or otherwise.

I mean, we want good science.  Right?

[TomB]

I find it more than a little ironic that the pro-vaccine side is the only side that has to prove itself.

Are there ANY studies other than Wakefield's that are alleged to show the autism/MMR link? Or is it mercury now?

[Al B.]

I'll take your non-responsive post to mean that your list of "proof" sux. But I'll review it anyway.

I'm not the one who has posted meaningless abstract after meaningless abstract as "proof." I've never alleged that there was proof of anything. The National Academy of Science's Institute of Medicine apparently agrees with me as they have called for more research into the question, while your side wants to shut off debate and has appealed to the owner of this forum to shut off free speech on the issue.

You can try to divert this debate into conspiracy theories about mercury all you want, while simultaneously trying to lump me into that group.

The issue is MMR, bowel disease and autism. You know it, and I know it.

[TomB]

The National Academy of Science's Institute of Medicine apparently agrees with me as they have called for more research into the question, while your side wants to shut off debate

While the IOM had said the issue should still be looked at because of RARE cases that might not have showed up in their studies, they have found NO LINK between autism and MMR. They also recommend no change to the vaccine schedule.

From the report:

By analyzing all of these data, the committee found that the evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship at the population level between MMR vaccine and autistic spectrum disorders. The committee bases this conclusion on the following:

· A consistent body of epidemiological research shows no overall association between the two.

· Data on the group of children used as a basis for the 1998 Lancet article or from other available case reports are insufficient to either prove or disprove causality.

· Biologic models linking MMR vaccine and autistic spectrum disorders are fragmentary.

· There is no relevant animal model linking the two.

Having said this, it is important to note that our committee does not exclude the possibility that MMR vaccine could in rare cases contribute to autistic spectrum disorders resulting in a very small number of affected children. But we do not have epidemiological data or tools precise enough to assess rare occurrences of such a response to MMR if it occurs at all.

[clip]

However, based on a review of the evidence before us, the committee does not find that a change in MMR immunization procedures is warranted at present. We do not recommend a policy review of the licensure of MMR vaccine or of the current schedule and recommendations for administration of MMR.

Yep, they sound pretty unsure of themselves.

[Al B.]

While the IOM had said the issue should still be looked at because of RARE cases that might not have showed up in their studies, they have found NO LINK between autism and MMR. They also recommend no change to the vaccine schedule.

 -- From TomB

LOL!  Man, we are cookin' now.  And thanks so much for your selective posting of the committee's report and YOUR INTERPRETATION of what they said..

The committee, in its recommendation, used the word "SMALL," not rare, in describing the possibility of a link between MMR and autism, and its rate of incidence in children, while calling for more research into this question (something you and your cohorts want to shut off, along with debate on this forum).  The term "SMALL," of course, was not defined in absolutes.  "RARE," as I'm sure you know, is a medical term used to described actual occurrence.  But you're a medical guy, I'm sure you know that.

And I  know you meant well, what with your zeal for scientific inquiry and all.

[bonesmccoy]

Dear PoliticalMom,
Please do not take my comments on scientific matters and Spin-Zone the words to fit your policy agenda. I clearly spelled out the relationship between DTwP and febrile seizures. It is intellectually dishonest to mischaracterize in that fashion ! .

[TomB]

The committee, in its recommendation, used the word "SMALL," not rare, in describing the possibility of a link between MMR and autism

Huh???

"Having said this, it is important to note that our committee does not exclude the possibility that MMR vaccine could in rare cases contribute to autistic spectrum disorders resulting in a very small number of affected children."

I'm beginning to see why all those studies I posted don't seem to have any effect on you.

[TomB]

something you and your cohorts want to shut off

I don't suppose you could post a specific example where I said we should shut off study?

No. I've said the issue of MMR/autism is settled, but if you can find the money, study it all you want. But don't try to scare people away from the vaccine.

Question. Did the IOM not recommend that the vaccine continue to be used?

[krodriguesdc]

on the contrary TomB - I would not let my child be innoculated with that...

[krodriguesdc]

But I'm not your doctor.

that's true and you never will be...

[krodriguesdc]

BUMP

[krodriguesdc]

a visit to Barrett's website will show you that for all his verbosity his only statement is - if it's not medicine - it's quackery!

[krodriguesdc]

would mandate vaccinations for the whole world?