Posted on 08/14/2002 1:42:48 PM PDT by krodriguesdc
Yep, that is real "scientific".
At least give moms a choice. I think they are smart enough not to choose this klinker of a vaccine.
That's a laugh coming from you. Do you STILL maintain that MMR contains mercury?
What to you is "real science"? Newspaper editorials? Because that is about all you have. We posted numerous scientific, peer-reviewed studies, and you just stick your finger in your ears and scream "Naa naa naa, I can't hear you!".
Face it, there is no science on your side. Just fragments of studies taken out of context (post 93 ring a bell?) and black helicopter conspiracy theories.
Actually, we've made progress on this thread, because I got a list out of you that you consider "proof." I'm really looking forward to reviewing it.
'Course, you've been railing against editorializing thruout this thread and demanding good science. I'm assuming there are no editorials in this list of "proof" you gave me. I'm also assuming there are no cohort studies among the epidemiological studies you cite since the National Academy of Sciences has specifically dismissed these types of studies as irrelevant in their review of MMR safety. I'm also assuming you haven't listed studies done by people with blatant conflicts of interest, monied or otherwise.
I mean, we want good science. Right?
Are there ANY studies other than Wakefield's that are alleged to show the autism/MMR link? Or is it mercury now?
I'm not the one who has posted meaningless abstract after meaningless abstract as "proof." I've never alleged that there was proof of anything. The National Academy of Science's Institute of Medicine apparently agrees with me as they have called for more research into the question, while your side wants to shut off debate and has appealed to the owner of this forum to shut off free speech on the issue.
You can try to divert this debate into conspiracy theories about mercury all you want, while simultaneously trying to lump me into that group.
The issue is MMR, bowel disease and autism. You know it, and I know it.
While the IOM had said the issue should still be looked at because of RARE cases that might not have showed up in their studies, they have found NO LINK between autism and MMR. They also recommend no change to the vaccine schedule.
From the report:
· A consistent body of epidemiological research shows no overall association between the two. · Data on the group of children used as a basis for the 1998 Lancet article or from other available case reports are insufficient to either prove or disprove causality. · Biologic models linking MMR vaccine and autistic spectrum disorders are fragmentary. · There is no relevant animal model linking the two. Having said this, it is important to note that our committee does not exclude the possibility that MMR vaccine could in rare cases contribute to autistic spectrum disorders resulting in a very small number of affected children. But we do not have epidemiological data or tools precise enough to assess rare occurrences of such a response to MMR if it occurs at all. [clip] However, based on a review of the evidence before us, the committee does not find that a change in MMR immunization procedures is warranted at present. We do not recommend a policy review of the licensure of MMR vaccine or of the current schedule and recommendations for administration of MMR. By analyzing all of these data, the committee found that the evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship at the population level between MMR vaccine and autistic spectrum disorders. The committee bases this conclusion on the following:
Yep, they sound pretty unsure of themselves.
-- From TomB
LOL! Man, we are cookin' now. And thanks so much for your selective posting of the committee's report and YOUR INTERPRETATION of what they said..
The committee, in its recommendation, used the word "SMALL," not rare, in describing the possibility of a link between MMR and autism, and its rate of incidence in children, while calling for more research into this question (something you and your cohorts want to shut off, along with debate on this forum). The term "SMALL," of course, was not defined in absolutes. "RARE," as I'm sure you know, is a medical term used to described actual occurrence. But you're a medical guy, I'm sure you know that.
And I know you meant well, what with your zeal for scientific inquiry and all.
Huh???
I'm beginning to see why all those studies I posted don't seem to have any effect on you.
I don't suppose you could post a specific example where I said we should shut off study?
No. I've said the issue of MMR/autism is settled, but if you can find the money, study it all you want. But don't try to scare people away from the vaccine.
Question. Did the IOM not recommend that the vaccine continue to be used?
that's true and you never will be...
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