Mumps and the MMR vaccine

thisislondon.com ^

[krodriguesdc]

Mumps and the MMR vaccine

Evening Standard editorial comment

Parents have good reason to be concerned about the possibility of a mumps outbreak in London. The epidemiological history of this infectious disease suggests that mumps is unpleasant but hardly ever fatal to children. In rare cases it causes meningitis or encephalitis; it can also cause infertility in boys. Before there was a vaccine for mumps, it tended to kill no more than five people a year.

Yet it is impossible to be certain that half a century of vaccination against the disease will not have weakened our natural immunity to the extent that a renewed outbreak would produce unusually severe symptoms.

This is why the near quadrupling of mumps cases in the capital to 112 in 2001, and the 30 per cent rise in the last quarter over the previous three months, is particularly worrying, given that clinics across the country have been without supplies of the mumps vaccine for up to six months and do not know when they can expect fresh supplies.

The Government will be blamed for creating this situation, and endangering childrens' lives, by insisting that the triple MMR vaccine be used to inoculate children against measles, mumps and rubella, but it is not directly the fault of the Department of Health. The reason why there is such a shortage of mumps vaccine is that not much of it is being manufactured (none to UK licence specifications) and the logical reason for this is that every country in the developed world except Britain has accepted the overwhelming scientific evidence that MMR does not trigger autism in young children. This is not to say that blame should rest with parents who refuse the triple vaccine.

Ever since Dr Andrew Wakefield produced his own variant findings, which suggested a possible link between MMR and autism and bowel disorders, enough anecdotal evidence has emerged that the MMR vaccination appears to coincide with the onset of autism in young children to convince many parents that they must be connected. Pressure is therefore growing to make it the responsibility of the Government to accelerate the production of mumps vaccine and then provide all three vaccinations separately on the NHS. This will be the first major challenge for the new public health minister David Lammy, and perhaps the toughest he will ever have to face.

[TomB]

thimerosol has been looked at as the culprit - yes...

So what about all this "MMR causes autism" stuff you've been posting? Are you saying MMRs OK now?

[conservative cat]

There is a link. It isn't a direct causal relationship.... but there is a link. MMR causes IBS, the IBS causes Autism.

That is the theory I find most plausible- My son has had bowel problems since he was a toddler. I am not so sure that the addition of so many other vaccines (Hep B, Chicken Pox, etc.) have not worsened the situation- either by provoking auto-immune responses or with mercury damage. We had MMR when I was a kid, but had only a few other vaccinations compared to how many my kids have had.

[TomB]

I think the natural childhood diseases are good and stimulate the immune system. A body that knows how to fight off disease is healthier. People who grow up in too much cleanliness are weaker for that reason.

Before the vaccine was introduced in 1963, between 3 and 4 million cases of measles were reported in the United States each year, with more than 300 deaths from the disease. That's in addition to the thousands who suffered blindness or brain damage. These days the United States has about 100 cases a year and no deaths. When measles vaccination rates went down in 1990, there was an outbreak of 28,000 cases of measles, and 30 children died.

More recently there was an outbreak in Italy.

"Experts say a measles epidemic in Italy, which has killed three children, is a lesson to parents about the importance of vaccination. It is estimated more than 24,000 people could have been infected with measles.

The three children who died were aged six months, four and 10.

There were 981 reported cases of measles in the Campania region of southern Italy between January and May this year. Thirteen developed encephalitis, which can cause brain damage and 63 pneumonia.

In Campania, where the largest city is Naples, only 53% of children have been vaccinated against measles by the age of two."

Now to me that doesn't sound like it's such a "good" disease.

[TomB]

It's too bad that when a doc with an otherwise good record raises an issue that needs to be objectively refuted, as was the case with Dr. Wakefield and MMR, that instead he gets personally attacked and fired from his job by the vested interests. That should be a concern to anyone interested in getting good information on which to base personal medical decisions.

Let's talk about Wakefield's "good information". He recently testified to Congress on the subject and here is part:

"Most significantly, a study due to be presented at the Pathological Society of Great Britain and Ireland, in Dublin at the beginning of July has confirmed that the measles vaccine virus is present in the diseased intestinal tissues of children with regressive autism."

"The Dublin researchers headed by Dr John O?Leary, Professor of Pathology at Trinity College Dublin, examined viral genetic material from intestinal biopsies taken from 12 children with gastro-intestinal disease and an autistic spectrum disorder. The viral genetic material had already been identified as measles in a study published in January in Molecular Pathology. Using state of the art molecular science the samples from these twelve children have now been characterised as from vaccine strain measles virus. This investigation continues. These data constitute a key piece of evidence in the examination of the relationship between MMR vaccine and regressive autism."

However, that was news to O'Leary!

" On 2 July 2002, however, Professor O'Leary rejected Dr Wakefield's interpretation of his work, insisting that it 'in no way establishes any link between the MMR vaccine and autism' (1). Indeed, he strongly recommended that parents should give their children MMR. O'Leary's judgement echoed that of other experts who had earlier dismissed Wakefield's claims for this research to the congressional committee in Washington. The first piece of evidence promising some support to the hypothesis advanced by Dr Wakefield in 1998 was thus discredited even before publication."

To quote you: "THIS should be a concern to anyone interested in getting good information on which to base personal medical decisions".

[Prolix]

"barrett seems to think that when things don't make sense to him it's quackery..."

It seems to me that Dr. Barrett goes by aphorisms such as:

1. The conservative: If it sounds too good to be true it probably is.
2. The empirical: If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck; then it's a duck.
3. The hippocratic: First do no harm.

[TomB]

1. The conservative: If it sounds too good to be true it probably is.

2. The empirical: If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck; then it's a duck.

3. The hippocratic: First do no harm.

I'd like to add a fourth that a clinical instructor told me many times and it stuck with me all these years:

"Don't be a stupid ass, doc."

;-)

[Al B.]

Give me a break. If you were concerned with getting objective information out there, you would note that Wakefield himself has stated that the evidence isn't conclusive. You would also note that Wakefield has also stated, "Accordingly, we have published studies that both do and do not support a role for measles virus in chronic intestinal inflammation; this is called integrity." [my emphasis]

Instead, you petulantly inform me that it is my "job" to get my info out there, while making inferences about who said what as if it were fact. Then you throw in with those who cheerlead for sacking the guy for his beliefs.

Spare me your "objectivity."

[TomB]

Spare me your "objectivity."

Oh the righteous indignation!!!

So I guess, as long as you are on the right side of an issue, you can make things up?

Doesn't it concern you in the least that the esteemed Dr. Wakefield completely mischaracterized (I'm being generous here) someone else's research? At a Congressional hearing, no less?

But of course, there's never enough evidence, is there? We have posted dozens of current, peer-reviewed research, but it is never enough. But then the other side comes along with ONE STUDY and wants to shut down the vaccine program.

Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

[aruanan]

I think the natural childhood diseases are good and stimulate the immune system. A body that knows how to fight off disease is healthier. People who grow up in too much cleanliness are weaker for that reason.

Umm, your immunological ignorance is showing. A vaccinated body is one that knows how to "fight off" disease in exactly the same way and for exactly the same reasons as a body that gets the full-blown disease. The benefit of the vaccination is that it provokes an immune response without the risk of fighting an uncontrolled bout with the wild-type pathogens. Fitz's earlier statement that "healthy children can tolerate measles, mumps, and rubella very well" is tautologous. If a kid doesn't tolerate the condition well, then he must not have been healthy. Hyuck-hyuck! But then, by definition, someone who comes down with an illness, childhood or otherwise, "tolerated" or not, is not healthy. Vaccinations provide the protection without the discomfort of a "well-tolerated" bout of the disease or the dangers of a less than well-tolerated bout. They provide a challenge to the immune system without the major assault on the body.

[FITZ]

Since you are so immunologically wise then tell us why the MMR now needs another booster many years later. It wears off and the natural infection does not. I suffered not one side effect from those 3 diseases, it should be left to the parents to make these decisions.

[FITZ]

I also don't like the way the vaccines are made and there can be contamination with viruses. You can't say that no kids died from the vaccine itself because they have --especially when they were using eggs and kids who were allergic to the eggs were given the vaccine. There are warnings on those vaccines for good reasons.

[FITZ]

Also I'm sure you understand the problems they had coming up with the chickenpox vaccine and that one of the fears is the titers will not be high enough to prevent shingles.

[Al B.]

Wakefield made up nothing. And O'Leary has never publicly stated as such, either.  At least not that I've seen.

All you've done is quote someone else's take on what O'Leary said.  The only thing in quotes from O'Leary is that there is no causal link established.  Wakefield has publicly agreed with that, so O'Leary must have felt compelled to restate the obvious.  Big deal.

Go harangue someone else.  I'll read your cites sometime and get back to you.

[Politicalmom]

That is a complete falsehood. It is WELL known that the DPT shot has caused many children to have seizures. That is why the DT shot is offered as an alternative. My nephew HAD no fever, he had seizures CAUSED by the vaccine. That is what the compensation fund is for.

But you will not admit to any damage caused by vaccines, which makes you dishonest, and not someone to be listened to.

[StolarStorm]

There are a number of things that can help. Keep him from eating/drinking any milk, wheat and corn based foods. I've also noticed that anything with MSG tends to cause problems.

I had an "awakening" after a very bad bout of IBS which put me in the hospital. My diet was severely restricted (essentially chicken, rice and some vegetables) and I actually think that being repeatedly "flushed" out before an endoscopy may have removed something that was causing the IBS. My autistic tendencies have faded along with the bowel problems. Additionally, constant exposure to people (but always provide an escape route) makes a difference....

Lastly, and there is something that I inavertedly ran into a few years ago and it also seemed to assist in another stage of the "awakening"... was a drug called piracetam. During the initial stages of my realization that I was not "normal" and having the Asperger fixation with "perfection", I experimented with a number of smart drugs. The piracetam made a big difference and made a permanent change. However, something like that should only be used (if at all) once someone is in adulthood. Supposedly their aren't any severe side effects, but you never know when you mess around with things that effect the brain. In my case, I had to weigh the risks versus the benefits.

[Politicalmom]

Just a small correction, which you probably already have knowledge of, but I always seek to educate everyone possible on this point. Exemptions are available in EVERY state, although some states make it nearly impossible.

One of the only things I liked about California was the availability of the philosophical exemption. All that is necessary is to fill out the paperwork, and agree to keep your child home in the event of an outbreak.

My son had a serious reaction to his DPT shot, and none of my children have been vaccinated since, due to a family history of vaccine reaction.

In my new state, I have a religious exemption, which I am grateful to be able to obtain. These are MY children, and God gave them to ME to make decisions for them. Ironically, my partially vaccinated son is the only one of my children to be plagued by ear aches and allergies, although we have a family history of severe allergies.

[TomB]

I also don't like the way the vaccines are made and there can be contamination with viruses. You can't say that no kids died from the vaccine itself because they have --especially when they were using eggs and kids who were allergic to the eggs were given the vaccine. There are warnings on those vaccines for good reasons.

While I'm sure there have been deaths and serious illness relating to vaccination, they are exceedingly rare. However, According to CDC, if immunization rates dropped to the levels they were in 1989 we could see over 26,000 hospitalizations from measles, 8500 cases of pneumonia, 135 cases of encephalitis, and 224 deaths, per year. Now, extrapolate those numbers to all vaccine preventable disease and tell me if it is worth it.

[TomB]

The only thing in quotes from O'Leary is that there is no causal link established.

From the BBC:

The comments come just hours after one of the key researchers in the MMR safety debate issued a statement saying the triple vaccine is safe.

Professor John O'Leary, of Trinity College Dublin, has investigated studies suggesting a link between the vaccine and autism.

He has been widely reported as being against the three-in-one vaccine.

But in a statement, he denied his studies ever suggested MMR was unsafe.

"This research in no way establishes any link between the MMR vaccine and autism," he said.

"We advocate the use of MMR to protect children from measles, mumps and rubella."

He added: "It is wrong for parents not to immunise their children."

So why are we even having this discussion? It seems to me that if everybody agrees there is no link between MMR and autism, the issue is settled.

[glory]

I'm sorry, but I'm not convinced it's not real. While I don't believe my son is autistic, he went into a serious decline shortly after receiving the MMR vaccine. He was quite social, smiling, responsive, and starting to talk when he was a year old(what you would consider a normal baby at that age). Right around the time he received the vaccine, he became distant, intense, non responsive, etc. We even thought he might be deaf at one point. He's finally perking up now(he's 2 1/2!!! a full 18 months and he's back to where he was socially and with his verbal skills where he was right before that vaccination). Now I don't know what happened, maybe a reaction to something in the vaccine? It was and still is very strange and if somethign in this thing did it, I would like to know because it's set my son back 18 months! I don't wish to sue anyone, but to have the freedom to delay the vaccine if it holds complications for younger babies. That is what we plan to do in the future. We will not give the MMR to any of our babies until they are 18 mos. now, maybe 2 years. I would have liked to have known any complications associated with this vaccine, speculative or not, prior to him receiving it though.
Please don't poo poo me, ok. This has been a very scary experience and until my son actually starts talking and saying words regularly(at least some), we won't feel totally out of the woods.

[Al B.]

So why are we even having this discussion? It seems to me that if everybody agrees there is no link between MMR and autism, the issue is settled.

"Reason and free inquiry are the only effectual agents against error... They are the natural enemies of error, and of error only... If [free enquiry] be restrained now, the present corruptions will be protected, and new ones encouraged."

-- Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Virginia, 1782.

I'll mark you and your cohort down as non-Jeffersonian.  And you claim to be medical professionals.  Geesh.