Culture of Vice

CERC ^ | Robert. R. Reilly

[Aedammair]

Thanks for your reply, and of course you are absolutely right. Your words also helped to dispel that feeling of loss I mentioned.

[JMJ333]

Glad I could help! ;)

[TomSmedley]

I would agree except that I believe the power of prayer and the strength of our God is so much more powerful than evil and wickededness.

As J.R.R. Tolkein, the definitive fablist of the bloody 20th century put it,

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No man can estimate what is really happening at the present sub specie aeternitatis. All we do know, and that to a large extent by direct experience, is that evil labours with vast power and perpetual success -- in vain: preparing always only the soil for unexpected good to sprout in."

---

[LiteKeeper]

Christ referred to it as "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit;" i.e., one gets so deeply into one's immorality that he can no longer hear the call to normalcy.

I would like to respectfully disagree with your contention that this is "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit." That blasphemy was the attribution of the works of God to Satan...contending that Satan had performed certain works of power when in reality it had been the work of Jesus Christ.

I believe the more correct reference you are looking for is the "hardening of the heart" or the "searing of the conscience" - reaching a state where the conscience is no longer a guide to righteousness.

[Red Jones]

bump

[WyldKard]

Smoking pot isn't comparable to abortion. I think the reason why the other poster mentioned it is because smoking pot is a vice, as opposed to something virtuous, and can be categorized as hedonistic because the only reason to engage in it is to get high. And of course the effects one gets from smoking, i.e, laziness, loss of sexual inhibitions, gluttony, are also classified as vice.

As long as he throws drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes, eating junk food, and vain cosmetic surgery to the list, I have no problems...

[sheltonmac]

This isn't an old article; it's a timeless one. I referred to this essay in An Unholy Sacrament for an Inhuman Race. Abortion is merely a sacrament for today's Godless, hedonistic society. It is a return to the ancient ritual of child sacrifice.

[logos]

That blasphemy was the attribution of the works of God to Satan...contending that Satan had performed certain works of power when in reality it had been the work of Jesus Christ.

Also respectfully, I'd sure like to see a reference.

[JMJ333]

Thank you for the kind words and I appreciate the link! =)

[JMJ333]

Beautiful quote from Tolkien. Thanks!

[Wright is right!]

It's a little musty," but it's also a little "fusty." The write has been stricken by Academian's Disease, in which the language and setup obscures and delays the point he's trying to make.

If you cannot tell the gist of a piece by the end of the first paragraph, then it's too late.

Michael

[JMJ333]

As long as he throws drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes, eating junk food, and vain cosmetic surgery to the list, I have no problems...

One can drink alcohol without getting drunk. Smoking cigarettes is a vice, but not one that is endangering our culture. Eating junk food isn't a vice unless that is all you eat gluttonously. And cosmetic surgery is, in my opinion wrong, but not a vice.

On the other hand, smoking pot is to get high. I do not understand why we should encourage that type of behavior by destigmatizing and legalizing a substance that leads to so many other vices.

[Kevin Curry]

I would agree except that I believe the power of prayer and the strength of our God is so much more powerful than evil and wickededness.

What is true on an individual level is not necessarily true on a societal level. God will allow a nation to go the direction its most influential choose to take it; where the less faithful will follow. Our most influential are leading this nation into vice-ridden anomie and Godless self-indulgence.

The most influential have also adopted an easy sort of liberal atheism that champions the nanny state as a God substitute. This god is tolerant of all wickedness and demands that everyone pay to support it. Indeed the most serious offense in such a society is judgmentalism.

[WyldKard]

One can drink alcohol without getting drunk.

Yet many people do. If you've been to any college campus over the last 10 years (or even longer), you'll know that the weekends are filled with violent drunks who imbibe to excess. Carry Nation and the Christian Temperance Union would have taken exception with you on the "harmlessness" of Alcohol.

Smoking cigarettes is a vice, but not one that is endangering our culture.

If you don't count the billions we incur each year in lost dollars and productivity. Yet, for some reason we still keep it legal (mostly)

Eating junk food isn't a vice unless that is all you eat gluttonously. And cosmetic surgery is, in my opinion wrong, but not a vice.

And vanity and gluttony aren't deadly sins? Yet we still keep these things legal (mostly)

On the other hand, smoking pot is to get high.

And there are people who smoke pot to get slightly buzzed without full on stoned, just as you cite people who drink just to get buzzed without getting drunk. There are many people in college who smoke pot, yet hold down jobs, or 4.0 GPA's, or are otherwise upright citizens. I know that in my college days, I had far more to fear from crazed, violent drunks running through the hallways of my dorm than peaceful, zoned out stoners. Not that I support any group that engages in a particular activity to an extreme.

I do not understand why we should encourage that type of behavior by destigmatizing and legalizing a substance that leads to so many other vices.

And alcohol doesn't lead to many other vices? How many rapes or DUI's or violent, heat of moment murders had alcohol involved as a major component? How do you explain this apparent hypocrisy? (sp) What made the Christian Temperance Union "wrong" in getting alcohol banned, but you right in saying it's "ok"?

What's next? Are you going to quote us Reefer Madness, and tell us how pot makes white women seek out relationships with the "negro male?", or how it makes people listen to Jazz music and commit violent, insane crimes?

If it was something like cocaine or heroin, or something DANGEROUS, sure, I'd totally be with you. But trying to say that pot is worse than alcohol? Not buying that...

[JMJ333]

What is true on an individual level is not necessarily true on a societal level. God will allow a nation to go the direction its most influential choose to take it; where the less faithful will follow. Our most influential are leading this nation into vice-ridden anomie and Godless self-indulgence.

My theological beliefs are a little different. I think the power of one righteous person's prayer can have a tremendous effect on society. Granted that God works in his own time, but Christ did say to ask and we shall receive, seek and we will find, knock and it will be opened for us. I pray every day for our country and our culture. That we will return to putting God as sovereign and following his law. This isn't to say that it won't get worse before it gets better, butI believe in the power of prayer and the might of God's promises.

The most influential have also adopted an easy sort of liberal atheism that champions the nanny state as a God substitute. This god is tolerant of all wickedness and demands that everyone pay to support it. Indeed the most serious offense in such a society is judgmentalism.

No argument here! ;)

[JMJ333]

Ok, you must be right. There would be no detremental effects to legalizing pot on our society, as it is the same as having a glass of wine. Riiigt.

[ArGee]

The virtual reality of the rationalization is stronger than the actual reality of the child. The child succumbs to the rationalization and is killed in a new "sacrament."

Hence the reason some people post graphic picturs of the "results of abortion," right Kepera?

Nice post, JMJ333.

One of the things that I've noticed about moral rationalization is that people rarely rationalize highly immoral things. Consider that every person has a line they will not cross. For example, in sex, it's OK to kiss a non-spouse but not to French kiss, etc. When the person decides to cross the line and rationalize the decision, they also move the line. It's not that they've rationalized doing a bad thing, but (as the article states) they've made the bad thing good. Now it's OK to French kiss a non-spouse, but not to grope. But groping is no worse today than French kissing was yesterday. Therefore the rationalization to move the line again is just as easy as it was before, if not easier due to the practice.

This is where the moral slippery slope comes from. What was wrong has become right, what was horrific (pedophelia) is now mearly a bad idea (because it doesn't involve consent).

Shalom.

[JMJ333]

Hence the reason some people post graphic picturs of the "results of abortion," right Khepera?

This reminds me of a classic thread on the subject. Most people when forced to look at those pictures can no longer rationalize or justify abortion. What is scary are the few who are unmoved by the pictures like former freeper pcl, whose posts border on the unbelievable on this thread:

Tortured, Bloody, Sickening . . . But Effective -- Pro-Life Group Pricks Communters' Consciences

[WyldKard]

Ok, you must be right. There would be no detremental effects to legalizing pot on our society, as it is the same as having a glass of wine. Riiigt.

Well, no offense, but dismissing my entire post with the wave of a hand seems to show that you don't really have any good answers or responses to my questions. It's not a terribly good way to make a convincing debate. If you want to bury your head in the sand, that's alright, even though it's a pretty hollow way to end a debate.

Prove to me that pot is worse than alcohol. Prove to me that there is an overwhelming interest in keeping booze legal while keeping pot illegal. Prove to me that it's better to violate the Constitution, and uproot State sovreignty in order to keep pot illegal, but that it's okay to keep alcohol legal, even though it causes far more societal harm. (I guess Carry Nation must have just been a "crazy religious freak" hmmm?) Prove to me that Prohibition works, even though it caused a massive spike in the homocide rates, and contributed to a rise in alcohol related deaths. I'm sure if you are right, there is more than enough evidence to build a case upon.

I'm not saying there would not be detrimental effects in legalizing pot. But I'm saying any effects from legalizing pot would have less of an impact on society than keeping it illegal causes now. Just as keeping alcohol illegal was proven to cause more societal harm than keeping it legal.

[ArGee]

Is there really a way to bring the culture back other than to live one's life according to the standards he expounds upon as moral?

Check out the story of the Salvation Army. I believe it managed a greater revival than would be required here.

Shalom.