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To: Shooter 2.5
I have also seen the phrase "the whole nine yards" referenced to WW I airplane ammo belts. The explanation is totally bogus.

If you have ever seen the 19th century poem about the English ships going to fight the Scottish freebooter--the one with the phrase "though I be wounded I am not slain, I'll lay me down and bleed awhile and then I'll rise and fight again"--well there is a statement in it about loading up nine yards of chain for the cannons.{To take down rigging I presume}. This poem was based, I think, on a much older song/poem from maybe the 1500s.

I'll see if I can find a link for this.

19 posted on 08/04/2002 1:45:14 PM PDT by Rockpile
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To: Rockpile
Andrew Barton is the poem. Looks like from 1710 or before.

http://www.contemplator.com/folk4/abartin.html

"he put in chain yeards nine, besides other great shot less and more"

20 posted on 08/04/2002 1:57:18 PM PDT by Rockpile
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To: Rockpile; archy; harpseal
Rockpile wins the brass ring.....whole nine yards refered to lenght of 50 caliber ammo belts for aircraft mounted guns in WWII

As for Brass Monkey...........

In the heyday of the sailing ship, every ship had to have cannon for protection. Cannon of the times required round iron cannon balls. The master wanted to store the cannon balls such that they could be of instant use when needed, yet not roll around the gun deck. The solution was to stack them in a square based pyramid next to the cannon. The top level of the stack had one ball, the next level down had four, the next had nine, the next had 16, and so on. Four levels would provide a stack of 30 cannon balls. The only real problem was how to keep the bottom level from sliding out from under the weight of the higher levels. To do this, they devised a small plate ("monkey") with one rounded indentation for each cannon ball in the bottom layer. When iron was used to make this plate ("monkey"), the cannon balls would rust to the plate. As a result, these plates were made of brass to prevent this problem-- thus the name "brass monkey." When temperature falls, brass contracts in size faster than iron. As it got cold on the gun decks, the indentations in the brass monkey would get smaller than the iron cannon balls they were holding. If the temperature got cold enough, the bottom layer would pop out of the indentations spilling the entire pyramid over the deck. Thus it was, quite literally, "COLD ENOUGH TO FREEZE THE BALLS OFF A BRASS MONKEY." And all this time some of you thought we were talking dirty. —Author Unknown

And Archy.....as to the Missing Hmong ect ect , I suspect that some very rich Christans In Action got a cut of that Chiefs miscount......:o)

Stay Safe !

21 posted on 08/04/2002 1:57:19 PM PDT by Squantos
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To: Rockpile
I have also seen the phrase "the whole nine yards" referenced to WW I airplane ammo belts. The explanation is totally bogus.

If you have ever seen the 19th century poem about the English ships going to fight the Scottish freebooter--the one with the phrase "though I be wounded I am not slain, I'll lay me down and bleed awhile and then I'll rise and fight again"--well there is a statement in it about loading up nine yards of chain for the cannons.{To take down rigging I presume}. This poem was based, I think, on a much older song/poem from maybe the 1500s.

I'll see if I can find a link for this.

Possibly the epic*The Earl of Morray*? I believe you may well be correct about the derivation of the *whole 9 yards* reference being of Scottish derivation, but from another context, the payment of loyalist/mercenary Scots with yardage of Warclan plaid, suitable for kilts or other uses. One of those who had fought well but had been slain or seriously injured was said to have truly earned his *whole 9 yards....*

This was a bit before the general introduction of belt-fed automatic weapons, though the British *Puckle Gun*, a forerunner of the Gatling, was not so far in the future. The details of it's patent, from a period during which Crown Patent Law stipulated that descriptions of the hopeful designs must be submitted in poetic form, makes for entertaining, as well as fascinating, reading and research.

-archy-/-

33 posted on 08/05/2002 8:21:50 AM PDT by archy
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