Flunking Out of School? Get a Lawyer

fox ^ | 8/1/02

[knak]

Some parents have slapped lawsuits on teachers, saying their kids deserved better marks and should be allowed to graduate from high school despite their grades.

Arizona English teacher Elizabeth Joice got a letter from a lawyer representing one of the students she failed. The letter asked her to take "whatever action is necessary" for the student to graduate or else the family would sue. Joice said the student plagiarized work, failed a paper and did not attend makeup sessions, among other things. School officials caved and the student was able to retake a test five hours before graduation and receive her diploma.

[knak]

I know what, let's pass them all even if they can't read, write, or even when they cheat and then it'll all be ok.

[bamafour]

And people wonder why this country is going to hell in a handbasket!

[evolved_rage]

Catch 22: Can the future employers of these future democrats sue the schools for misrepresenting the educational achievements of their employees??? Employers should not have to validate a high school graduates ability to read and write--though its readily apparent after the kid opens their mouth.

[neutrino]

Can the future employers of these future democrats sue the schools for misrepresenting the educational achievements of their employees???

Why should they bother? They can go to China and other nations.

Newsflash: they are.

[parsifal]

Hard to beleive that a lawyer could sue over bad grades. Although an idiot PE coach gave me a "C" in 10th grade when I really earned an "A". My best friend lost out on valedictorian becuase of the idiot coach. On second thought, I ought to sue. parsy the litigious.

[caisson71]

Teaches have been passing undeserving students for a long time. How do you think we end up with so many lawyers?

[Eala]

And people wonder why this country is going to hell in a handbasket!

An awful lot of our troubles can be laid at the doorstep of out-of-control lawyers. The recent/current financial scandals are nothing by comparison to the damage wreaked by the less-than-ethical element of the legal profession.

[Eala]

...and while watching the tedious update download, I realized I should have said:

the damage wreaked by the less-than-ethical and unpoliced element of the legal profession.

(Which of course begs the question: Who watches the watchers?)

[bamafour]

Sue Micky D's if you are too fat.
Sue the teacher if your child fails because they don't do the work.
Sue tobacco companies if someone dies from smoking two packs a day for many years.
Sue the state if you lose an election.
Sue the coach if your child doesn't play because he is not coordinated enough.
Sue the doctor when you don't follow his directions and something happens.
Sue, sue, sue, sue!
When will it ever end?

[TheLion]

One thing is for sure, our "lack of education system" will make older folks much more competitive, should they entertain getting back into the job market. We need some kind of system to throw out idiot lawsuits. Certainly our poorly educated will not be able to help. This country is going to be one hell of an alien place if we continue on our current path.

[Fintan]

Some parents thought the students were not given enough information about plagiarism

It's called "cheating". How much more information do they need?

Pitiful.

[evolved_rage]

Not really my point, but you are correct.

What I attempted to say was if students can sue teachers for bad grades, can somebody else sue for false passing grades? A student's future employer may have expected a high school graduate, and gets Johny Dumbo instead, and AFTER confirming the receipt of a diploma. Can the employer sue?? They are graduating student under false pretenses. ... and I was being facetious too.

[Coeur de Lion]

Not wholly the lawyers. People don't have to sue just because some shyster either convinces them to or they see a chance at winning the "sued lottery." Also, everytime there's attempts at tort reform to limit the number of frivolous law suits and outrageous settlements, it's shot down by the politicians. And guess which politicians and from what party profits the most from the trial lawyer lobby. Juries are equally to blame. They're the ones awarding the large penalties. Every now and then you see some judge with some semblance of sanity deciding the awards are excessive and reduces them.
As for lying and cheating; when I went to school the only people cheating were those that weren't smart enough or hardworking enough to pass the test without cheating. Most of us felt cheating was something only losers did and was beneath us. Nowadays, it bragged about as an accomplishment. Given the reports on the percentages of college students who cheat nowadays one can easily see that playing by the rules is one value that's definitely fallen to the wayside. These children's moral compass has gone to the wayside and what now passes for culture is mostly responsible for it (i.e. popular culture, rap crap and other asundry decadent believes). They even questioned some students with regards to first amendment rights and they felt that it wasn't right to impose a dress code because it violated their rights, but punkin' another kid for his lunch money was okay. Some of them thought that murder was acceptable under certain circumstances(and I'm not talking self-defense), but by God don't violate my civil rights. And of course, the parents don't provide them with any values, otherwise they wouldn't be the ones doing the lawsuits. Hell, it's free money isn't it.

[Lil'freeper]

Pitiful.

Amen! BFM like this is why the 'good teachers', the ones with keen intellects and high standards, are leaving the profession in droves. The only ones left are the twits who confuse activity with accomplishment and only serve to perpetuate the problem.

[Lil'freeper]

BFM= bovine fecal matter. Just for clarification.

[Fintan]

Ya mean like this????

[TN Republican]

I'd love to see the parents of the achievers, who had to work hard for their grades, join the teacher in suing the school for failure to provide an equal opportunity for the students, and for creating a hostile work environment for the teacher.

If nothing else, it would make some judge have to admit that under the law, some people are more equal than others. (Then maybe it could wind up in a district court and be reversed in a precedent-setting decision.)

[crusher999]

Your right....nobody is responsible for their own actions anymore.

If you do everything wrong...and it doesn't come out right, then find a lawyer that will make it right.

But this does lead to and interesting idea.

Maybe it's time to start fighting fire with fire, or to take a page out of their play book.

I don't think it would be too hard to find a couple of dozen functionally illiterate (oops, almost misspelled illiterate...ah the irony if I had) "graduates", that could be talked into filling suit against the school system.

If the suit hurt bad enough, I betcha there wouldn't be a chance in hell for little Johnny to advance to the forth grade without being able to read.

[neutrino]

Can the employer sue??

Seriously, I believe they can under a theory called "Vicarious liability".

Also, you might recall the FBI's program against college level diploma mills...it was called dipscam...and the idea was that when the diploma mill conferred a meaningless degree on someone in exchange for money...thus inducing an employer to hire the person...that a fraud had occurred.

The problem is that grades have been inflated a great deal over the last several decades. Academic dishonesty (cheating) generally isn't pursued. So, whether we look at the grade schools or the colleges, credentials just aren't the same as they used to be.

[evolved_rage]

OMG. I was just trying to point to the idiocy of our headlong rush towards litigiousness, and you popped my bubble. So a teacher can be sued for failing a student, and then for passing a failure of a student. No wonder the profession often attracts the dregs of society. We're doomed.