Arguing with liberals

August 1, 2002 | NC Conservative

[NC Conservative]

Hey Freepers. I have been debating with my liberal friends on things such as taxes, Israel/Palestine, UN, et. All they do is repeat the same bilge. It is hard talking to them so I have had it up to my neck with it. They are nice people but damn they are liberal. They always say republicans are crooks, tax cuts on the backs of he poor yada yada yada. Does anyone else get the same reaction? Also, when does crap like this enter their head? Childhood? College?

[Gumlegs]

One of my favorite tactics when the "taxes are too low" comment comes up is to point out that if they really felt that way, they'd just send more money to the Feds come tax time. It's legal.

I then usually discover that they think that other peoples' taxes are too low.

[CPT Clay]

Check out the thread asking; Which party is trying to steal Social Security?

[LantzALot]

I have one family member I call "My Socialist Son-in-Law" who harped for a long time that he (Being "the poor") had his taxes go UP as the result of the Reagan tax cut. Turns out he lied twice.

He ain't poor -- owns two homes in Southern California, and is now traveling through the socialist paradises of Europe on an open-ended vacation. (He just retired early after working for the state.)

Also, he let it slip one time that the reason his taxes went up, was that he was once playing like the "fat cats" and lost his two-martini lunches and other deductions in the '86 tax change. Since that slip, he hasn't mentioned it again.

[T. Jefferson]

I tell the liberal " I don't mind discussing politics with you, but when I prove you wrong with easily obtained facts will you have the courage change your opinion and accept facts, or will you stick to lies and emotion. If they say yes, make them say out loud "I will change my opinion if you prove me wrong with facts." Chances are they will never even say it, if they do, fire away...in a discussion of fact liberals come completely unarmed. They know nothing. Also, whenever they praise...say Clinton for example, say " Name the top 5 things he did..." The liberal will say duh, quickly say .."the top 4 things", you'll get duh again, quickly say "name ANYTHING he did". DUHHH

It can be great fun actually, they always are proven wrong and look dumb. Of course, be armed with facts.

[chimera]

I try not to let lies, factual errors, or illogic go unchallenged. As you might expect, it gets me in a lot of arguments, but they tend to end quickly, usually with me being called a name. The latest was a challenge to a liberal's assertion that conservatives just want to make themselves rich by stealing from the poor. I asked the person how could that happen since the poor have no money, what is there to steal? I got a deer-in-the-headlights look, then was summarily informed that I was a racist (this after never even having mentioned race at any time).

So you'll reach a saturation point. Everyone has a different point at which they won't be able to take it anymore. Then just take a break. Spend some time alone, or maybe on FR, or watching sports or a science show or whatever on TV. But don't give up the fight. Keep coming back for more like a good masochist because, who knows, you might reach someone with just a glimmer of logic or rational thinking, and then...

[Reactionary]

Some people seem to think that in order to convince people of something you need to use well-reasoned arguments. That's certainly true for some people, but it isn't true for most people.

If you want to convince most people most of the time, give it to them loud and dirty. Go slow at first, make them feel relaxed, then hit them between the eyes with the sledgehammer of propaganda.

Works like a charm.

[rockfish59]

Like talking to the wall.
Remember 'gravitas?'

Whenever I confront some commie lib marxist about all those killed from communism EVERY DAMNED ONE OF THEM will skirt the issue!

[Lovergirl]

They turn red and spit as they argue.. It's hilarious.

[Psycho_Bunny]

The first thing I ask, when a liberal starts their whining bologna with me, is "Who wrote The Federalist?".

If they can't answer, I tell them I won't discuss politics with them because it is impossible to discuss American Political Thought with someone who is completely ignorant on the subject, and utterly unaware of the foundation of the Constitution.

I once had a hard-core liberal respond that they had read The Federalist three times!  I actually called him a liar and told him that, it's possible to read The Federalist once and remain a liberal but, if you read it three times it's because you love it...and you can't love The Federalist and remain liberal.  I knew I was safe calling him a liar because he could only name one of the three authors.

lololol.

[PeterPrinciple]

"I just try to find what they actually believe in; their political philosophy. They usually have none or spout bumper-sticker slogans. Nothing is solved of course but the vapidness of their beliefs becomes a bit clearer - to both of us. "

I hope this isn't your only hobby.

[Question_Assumptions]

Concerning taxing the rich...

In order to build any large scale enterprise (i.e., a company), you need to have large scale capital investment in order to build infrastructure and pay the start up costs. That cost is far beyond the capacity of an average person. You can get the large scale concentration of wealth in three ways. Individuals can be wealthy, corporations can be wealthy, or the government could be wealthy. Since liberals reject wealthy individuals and corporations, that leaves only the government. If these people really want to see what happens when the government controls all the wealth, they should tour Eastern Europe.

Also, if they think that it is easy to be rich and that the rich do nothing but get richer automatically, ask them why so few mega-million dollar lottery winners manage to stay notably wealthy and why you often never hear from these people again after they win.

You may also want to research the "cargo cult mentality". It is a mentality that detaches work from the benefits of work and assumes that if anyone has anything good, they took it from someone else.

Finally, the thing that liberals never seem to grasp is that it isn't anyone else's business how someone spends their money. An example that illustrates this perfectly came from a college course I took (yes, there are some conservative ideas on college campuses) on current moral and social issues.

The professor set up a situation where you offer to pay a local child $20 to mow your lawn. the professor then asked, "Would it be better if the child spent the $20 on candy or better if they sent the money to a worthwhile charity." (The professor used "UNICEF" -- no one's perfect). Everyone in the class agreed that charity would be a better way for the child to use their money. "OK," the professor then asked, "How about if you just send the money to the charity instead of giving it to the child?" This is where he got the class. Everyone agreed that charity was the best way to spend the money but everyone also got squeamish at the idea of taking that choice away from the child.

The bottom line? It isn't your money and you don't have the right to take it and spend it how you want to spend it just because you think it is too much or will be badly spend. The end game scenario on that sort of thinking is that no one should have any discretionary income and that some intellectual should decide how all money is spent.

See, a fundamental problem of liberalism is that they always envision themselves as the beneficiaries of their own programs, not the victims or the people who have to work or pay for it. They picture themselves as the intelligencia making all the decisions, not the grunts paying the bills. Have them imagine what it would be like to be on the receiving end of wealth confiscation and they might not take so kindly to the idea. And if they don't think it can happen to them, point out Cambodia where, once the communists took over, anyone with an education or who wore a pair of glasses could get shot.

In a more light-hearted vein, a friend's father used to say, "I used to be a communist. Then I found out that if you divided all the world's wealth evenly, everyone would have $5. I have $10 so I'm not a communist."

[IYAS9YAS]

Hey now, not everyone who is a government employee is a feeble-minded liberal. I work for a less than loved government agency on the state level and I'm more than aware of this liberal drivel coming from many co-workers. Sometimes you can't beat 'em by fighting 'em, you have to tame 'em from the inside out.

I'd love to see more conservatives in the government arenas (not more workers, but a higher ratio of conservatives) so that the government agencies that are necessary don't run amok.

[maxwell]

One liberal I know owns a 2nd home in the mountains and drives a Range Rover. I constantly point out to him that he is acting like an evil conservative and that if he truly believed the liberal crap he preeches he would allow homeless people to inhabit his 2nd home and he would have bought a small, fuel efficient car and donated the price difference form his Range Rover to the US or State Treasury in addition to his regular taxes. Or try to bum $20 bucks off him. You clearly don't need it Paul and you are earning more than your fair share. Give some to me.

BWAHAHA! I bet he lets his dog crap all over yer front yard too, dude...

[KSCITYBOY]

A friend of mine's older brother is a major liberal (one who avoided paying income taxes for about 10yrs) who used to argue with us all the time. He hated Reagan, the US was evil, etc all the typical stuff. Anyway 15 years go by and I don't see the guy until his mom dies and I see him at a function after the services and first thing he says to me is "better communist than republican" 15 years and he stands there and wants me to argue with him. Finally I'm trying to leave and he is following me trying to argue and I turn to him and say: "Jack you win your right after all these years I now know your 100% correct thanks for making me see the light - I gotta go bye". Point here is that your wasting your time debating true blue lefties. Only learning and life experiences can change their minds. Fight them at everyturn but don't knock yourself out arguing with them.

[maxwell]

a lot of liberals I know do good deeds, such as 5K runs for a disease

HEY! Watch where yer swingin' that thang! THIS conservative runs 5k's for diseases all the time!

[Dimensio]

There are TWO kinds of liberals; the deceivers... and the deceived.

Be warned, not every deceiver or deceived is a liberal. I've seen one or two "conservatives" who would flagrantly ignore facts that contradicted some specific posision (note that these were regarding specific elements of fact such as court cases, not general politicial philisophy). One such person insisted that the US Supreme Court set a certain legal prescedent in 1961. When presented with documentation that no such prescedent was set in the referenced ruling, he completely ignored it and continued to make the assertion.

Liars come in all political stripes. It's ability to use rationality and logic that seem to distinguish between liberalism and conservatism (or at least moderate libertarianism).

[TrappedInLiberalHell]

There are TWO kinds of liberals; the deceivers... and the deceived.

The deceivers are not really liberals per se -- they are liberals of convenience. If conservatism allowed them to further their sinister goals, they'd be conservatives.

The deceived, among whom my sister can be counted, really believe in this stuff. I wish she'd learn to question what she's been told, but hey, if it gives her comfort to believe as she does, more power to her. Meanwhile, I'll keep fighting the fight and supporting those who will keep America safe enough to allow her the luxury of her utopian beliefs.

[gargoyle]

...Talk, debate, then argue, win or lose, have a drink or a meal, laugh, and agree to disagree, keep your friends close...

[CaptainTrips]

Acutally, half the population has an IQ lower than the median, not the average.

[Jim Scott]

I hope this isn't your only hobby.

Hardly. I have many interests. Most of my liberal friends are well aware of my politically conservative views and avoid discussing politics for the very reason that I don't let them get away with simply mouthing cliches about Bush being dumb or Republicans being mean or whatever Democrat mantra is current.

My views are generally respected by my friends because I have thought-out positions and facts in hand, not simply emotions. Unfortunately, most folks have only a passing interest in politics anyway so political discussion is only a tiny part of my social life.

I've generally had more intense debates on FR than I ever get in person. It's easy to be assertive on a computer debating with strangers using fake names. Face to face requires more self control and tact and that requirement diminishes many would-be arguments over politics in the real world. The cyber world is another story and we all get brave here. Wonderful outlet - and why I love FR.